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Decision time on tramway
TALKS are under way to decide the fate of the Weymouth Harbour Tramway.
With the harbour terminal set to be swallowed up by the Pavilion redevelopment, council chiefs and rail bosses must decide what to do with a railway that has no station.
Three options will be on the table - leave the remaining part of the line in place, surface over it or rip it up completely.
Whatever happens it will not be in a hurry, says Partnerships and Special Projects spokesman for Weymouth and Portland Borough Council Howard Legg.
He said: "Progress has been slow but discussions are ongoing. As well as the borough council, the negotiations involve Network Rail and Dorset County Council.
"This has come about because the harbour station and a section of the tramway up to about Devonshire Buildings is part of the Pavilion redevelopment and needs to be acquired from Network Rail.
"A report will be going to the management committee in September to update members.
"We don't envisage any problems although we're dealing with agreements that stretch back over 100 years."
Coun Legg added: "The issue we then face is what to do with the rest of the line. Of course removing it will involve a considerable amount of money.
"Personally I wouldn't want to see something removed for no reason, but it has to be safe.
"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."
The tramway opened in 1865 providing a direct link from the railway station to the quay to serve the Channel Island ferries. Harbourside lines exist elsewhere in Britain but Weymouth was the only place where full-length mainline trains proceeded down a main road.
Regular train services ceased in the 1990s but there have been a number of specials' run by interest groups, with the last one almost 10 years ago. There have also been proposals to turn the line into a tourist attraction with tram services operating on the line.
Readers came out 3-1 in favour of keeping the line in a Dorset Echo reader poll conducted in 2001. But the tramway has also drawn its share of critics who claim it is dangerous.
Weymouth transport historian Brian Jackson said a public inquiry is held before a railway is closed but with no regular services on the tramway he doesn't envisage any problems shutting it.
He said: "It's a dead duck. Every so often people have wild dreams about the tramway, but you have to be realistic.
"It should be consigned to the history books as an interesting feature."
A Network Rail spokesman said: "We are in discussions about the tramway in relation to the Pavilion redevelopment.
"As regards to the future of the tramway we have not yet come to a conclusion and these discussions with the council are ongoing."
8:55am Wednesday 6th August 2008
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CommentPosted by: Sidney Hall, Nearby on 10:38am Wed 6 Aug 08
Yep, remove it. It's dangerous to cyclists and bikes. It will never be used again since the days of the Maid Of Kent, Earl Godwin et al. The days of that train crawling along the quay coincided with nearly all traffic running down St Thomas Street. Very occasionally a car might've been parked blocking the train. That caused much amusement to onlookers (and me). It would happen every time nowadays. You know what those blue badge holders are like ;-)
Yep, remove it. It's dangerous to cyclists and bikes. It will never be used again since the days of the Maid Of Kent, Earl Godwin et al. The days of that train crawling along the quay coincided with nearly all traffic running down St Thomas Street. Very occasionally a car might've been parked blocking the train. That caused much amusement to onlookers (and me). It would happen every time nowadays. You know what those blue badge holders are like ;-)
Posted by: maximus, Weymouth on 10:51am Wed 6 Aug 08
Do nothing is the least expensive option after all the hot air and council time has been expended despite the tales of people not looking where they are cycling and skidding on wet metal rails. Why spend (our) money that the council claims to be short of.
Do nothing is the least expensive option after all the hot air and council time has been expended despite the tales of people not looking where they are cycling and skidding on wet metal rails. Why spend (our) money that the council claims to be short of.
Posted by: Voice Of Reason, Weymouth on 12:27pm Wed 6 Aug 08
Howard Legg says [quote]"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."[/quote] I guess the unfortunate motorcyclist that slipped on the track and broke their arm 5 years ago doesn't count? Even in a car, it is very dangerous when your wheels align with the track- it feels as if you are on ice. Get id of them.
Howard Legg says
"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."
I guess the unfortunate motorcyclist that slipped on the track and broke their arm 5 years ago doesn't count? Even in a car, it is very dangerous when your wheels align with the track- it feels as if you are on ice. Get id of them.
Posted by: tiny tim, weymouth on 12:42pm Wed 6 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Voice Of Reason[/bold] wrote:
Howard Legg says [quote]"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."[/quote] I guess the unfortunate motorcyclist that slipped on the track and broke their arm 5 years ago doesn't count? Even in a car, it is very dangerous when your wheels align with the track- it feels as if you are on ice. Get id of them. [/quote] that why i assisted one old gentleman called les, he took a tumble and i called for an ambulance to attend. No reported accidents eh ?
Typical admin housekeeping eh!
Voice Of Reason wrote:
Howard Legg says "Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."
I guess the unfortunate motorcyclist that slipped on the track and broke their arm 5 years ago doesn't count? Even in a car, it is very dangerous when your wheels align with the track- it feels as if you are on ice. Get id of them.
that why i assisted one old gentleman called les, he took a tumble and i called for an ambulance to attend. No reported accidents eh ?
Typical admin housekeeping eh!
Posted by: Mikeman, Portland on 2:48pm Wed 6 Aug 08
I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say.
As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.
I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say.
As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.
Posted by: genghis, portland on 5:04pm Wed 6 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Mikeman[/bold] wrote:
I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say. As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.[/quote] Before the 2nd World War Road Tax was used to build and maintain roads but no more. Everybody pays for the roads through all forms of taxation. Road tax is one form of taxation but the proceeds goes into the pot and isn't earmarked for anything in particular. It's just part of the general fund.
Mikeman wrote:
I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say. As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.
Before the 2nd World War Road Tax was used to build and maintain roads but no more. Everybody pays for the roads through all forms of taxation. Road tax is one form of taxation but the proceeds goes into the pot and isn't earmarked for anything in particular. It's just part of the general fund.
Posted by: weymouthfox, Weymouth on 5:17pm Wed 6 Aug 08
Money talks again. The tramway is part of Weymouth's history and should be preserved as such. Perhaps the Olympics would be a good time to run a tram service along the line.
Money talks again. The tramway is part of Weymouth's history and should be preserved as such. Perhaps the Olympics would be a good time to run a tram service along the line.
Posted by: dan, Dorchester on 6:09pm Wed 6 Aug 08
Keep it - we are all going to be travelling by 'mass transport' sooner or later unless someone manages to convert two of the world's most volatile substances that are contained in WATER (Hydrogen and Oxygen) into usable non-damaging fuel).
I enjoy my ride along the rails -I find that although 'like driving on ice' the rails themselves keep me pointing in the direction I want to go in - i.e. following the rails!
Keep it - we are all going to be travelling by 'mass transport' sooner or later unless someone manages to convert two of the world's most volatile substances that are contained in WATER (Hydrogen and Oxygen) into usable non-damaging fuel).
I enjoy my ride along the rails -I find that although 'like driving on ice' the rails themselves keep me pointing in the direction I want to go in - i.e. following the rails!
Posted by: MIG, Poole on 7:35pm Wed 6 Aug 08
The Purpose of the Tramway was to enable trains to reach the quayside and carry goods and passengers to and from the RAILWAY owned ships.
This continued for a while after Sealink was sold, the last really regular services were in the summer of 1986. In 1987 trains were run occasionally, but without a Police escort.
Since 1987 the only trains to run have been excursions which just turned round and came back, so no real need for a station.
Each excursion became progressively more complicated and the last one involved a build up of a month's preparation by Railtrack (as was then), British Transport Police, The Railtour company and others.
I would suggest that nearly everyone who knew how to run a train on the tramway has either retired or moved away.
So, with no reason to run it, Heath and Safety considerations, and little experience available - Just spread some asphalt over it and forget it.
PS. If anyone wants to run another train and you need someone to compile the risk assessment and action plan, I am open to good offers.
The Purpose of the Tramway was to enable trains to reach the quayside and carry goods and passengers to and from the RAILWAY owned ships.
This continued for a while after Sealink was sold, the last really regular services were in the summer of 1986. In 1987 trains were run occasionally, but without a Police escort.
Since 1987 the only trains to run have been excursions which just turned round and came back, so no real need for a station.
Each excursion became progressively more complicated and the last one involved a build up of a month's preparation by Railtrack (as was then), British Transport Police, The Railtour company and others.
I would suggest that nearly everyone who knew how to run a train on the tramway has either retired or moved away.
So, with no reason to run it, Heath and Safety considerations, and little experience available - Just spread some asphalt over it and forget it.
PS. If anyone wants to run another train and you need someone to compile the risk assessment and action plan, I am open to good offers.
Posted by: Captain Sensible, Near Muff on 8:09pm Wed 6 Aug 08
The last train went down it in 1999, its officially 'mothballed' but I took a look at it recently and its so rusted up that nothing could go down it now anyway, so they might as well get rid of it. Another piece of local history gone west.
The last train went down it in 1999, its officially 'mothballed' but I took a look at it recently and its so rusted up that nothing could go down it now anyway, so they might as well get rid of it. Another piece of local history gone west.
Posted by: Robinson on 9:37pm Wed 6 Aug 08
[quote]"Personally I wouldn't want to see something removed for no reason, but it has to be safe.
"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."[/quote]
Personally I would like to see a transcript of what Councillor Legg said as I suspect there may have been something else in between these two remarks to the effect that... There have been a number of accidents along the tram line although...Apparentl
y there have been no reportable etc... .
I would imagine NHS records if they record accident locations and causes would give a clearer picture of the dangers.
"Personally I wouldn't want to see something removed for no reason, but it has to be safe.
"Apparently there have been no reportable accidents on the line in 10 years."
Personally I would like to see a transcript of what Councillor Legg said as I suspect there may have been something else in between these two remarks to the effect that... There have been a number of accidents along the tram line although...Apparentl
y there have been no reportable etc... .
I would imagine NHS records if they record accident locations and causes would give a clearer picture of the dangers.
Posted by: abpye, weymouth on 9:54pm Wed 6 Aug 08
Sensible comments from Brian Jackson, who is weymouths foremost transport historian, that it should be consigned to history. There is no chance it will be used again.
Sad that things move on, but you have to be realistic.
Sensible comments from Brian Jackson, who is weymouths foremost transport historian, that it should be consigned to history. There is no chance it will be used again.
Sad that things move on, but you have to be realistic.
Posted by: spangler on 10:15pm Wed 6 Aug 08
[quote][bold]abpye[/bold] wrote:
Sensible comments from Brian Jackson, who is weymouths foremost transport historian, that it should be consigned to history. There is no chance it will be used again.
Sad that things move on, but you have to be realistic.[/quote] I agree. I expect the line is well documented by rail enthusiasts with film footage of it in operation during its heyday. There are probably plenty of photographs and maps too. All of which would be informative resources for those with a genuine interest in the line.
abpye wrote:
Sensible comments from Brian Jackson, who is weymouths foremost transport historian, that it should be consigned to history. There is no chance it will be used again.
Sad that things move on, but you have to be realistic.
I agree. I expect the line is well documented by rail enthusiasts with film footage of it in operation during its heyday. There are probably plenty of photographs and maps too. All of which would be informative resources for those with a genuine interest in the line.
Posted by: CoogarUK, Dorchester on 11:35pm Wed 6 Aug 08
[quote]I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go[/quote]Seeing as most of them seem to prefer riding on the pavement and footpaths these days, even when there are no 'tram lines' on the adjacent road!
I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go
Seeing as most of them seem to prefer riding on the pavement and footpaths these days, even when there are no 'tram lines' on the adjacent road!
Posted by: bazza, brisbane oz on 2:43am Thu 7 Aug 08
the usual procrastination will happen, debate will rage for the next ten years, weymouth has to be more proactive in future development.
the usual procrastination will happen, debate will rage for the next ten years, weymouth has to be more proactive in future development.
Posted by: Mikeman, Portland on 9:35am Thu 7 Aug 08
[quote][bold]genghis[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Mikeman[/bold] wrote: I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say. As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.[/quote] Before the 2nd World War Road Tax was used to build and maintain roads but no more. Everybody pays for the roads through all forms of taxation. Road tax is one form of taxation but the proceeds goes into the pot and isn't earmarked for anything in particular. It's just part of the general fund.[/quote] How right you are if just a small proportion of the road tax ( V.E.D ) were to be spent on our roads we would have the best roads in the world. But I still say that cyclists are just freeloaders on our roads, pavements & anywhere else they feel the need to go & when cycle paths are put in for their use they turn round & say I am going to use the road & its head down & bugger everybody else.
genghis wrote:
Mikeman wrote: I dont think cyclist should have a say as to whether the lines stay or go,when they pay to use the roads then they can have their say. As for myself i think its a shame that another part of Weymouths history is to be confined to the scrap bin. Also the tracks are a good way of keeping speed down.
Before the 2nd World War Road Tax was used to build and maintain roads but no more. Everybody pays for the roads through all forms of taxation. Road tax is one form of taxation but the proceeds goes into the pot and isn't earmarked for anything in particular. It's just part of the general fund.
How right you are if just a small proportion of the road tax ( V.E.D ) were to be spent on our roads we would have the best roads in the world. But I still say that cyclists are just freeloaders on our roads, pavements & anywhere else they feel the need to go & when cycle paths are put in for their use they turn round & say I am going to use the road & its head down & bugger everybody else.
Posted by: Tru Belle, purbeck on 2:13pm Thu 7 Aug 08
[bold]Leave[/bold] everything alone-- keep some legacies of a past idyllic transport era- Please get real-- put a notice up-[bold]CYCLISTS DISMOUNT[/bold]
Leave everything alone-- keep some legacies of a past idyllic transport era- Please get real-- put a notice up-
CYCLISTS DISMOUNT Posted by: CoogarUK, Dorchester on 4:06pm Fri 8 Aug 08
[quote][bold]Tru Belle[/bold] wrote:
[bold]Leave[/bold] everything alone-- keep some legacies of a past idyllic transport era- Please get real-- put a notice up-[bold]CYCLISTS DISMOUNT[/bold] [/quote] They put one of those up at Riverside Walk here in Dorchester. It doesn't work!
Tru Belle wrote:
Leave everything alone-- keep some legacies of a past idyllic transport era- Please get real-- put a notice up-CYCLISTS DISMOUNT
They put one of those up at Riverside Walk here in Dorchester. It doesn't work!
Posted by: msmunro, Bere Regis on 7:50pm Sat 9 Aug 08
Yet another big mistake is about to be made aka Beeching and all that. Just at the time when public transport could make a valuable contribution to the new waterfront & the Olympics blinkered people want to remove one of the last remaining mainline links to a cross channel port and more importantly the Channel Islands via the Condor Ferries. With modern 'Sprinter' trains that require no locomotives or run-round facilities the new development could easily accomodate a simple platform to the quayside and allow a seamless travel link for rail users from all over the UK. This would be even better were the Yeovil line to be improved instead of being run down. Why on earth direct trains from Paddington or even cross country services to Bristol and beyond are not being re-instated beats me. Weymouth will deeply regret the removal of this link and if the likes of Sheffield and other towns can cope with tramlines I don't see why cyclists in Weymouth can't either. All it requires is for the gaps to be hard rubber filled to support cycles and allow railway wheels to depress into the rubber and the problem is solved. It seems there are mindless folk hell bent on change for change sake instead of making better use of what is still there. Get real please Weymouth Cllrs.
Yet another big mistake is about to be made aka Beeching and all that. Just at the time when public transport could make a valuable contribution to the new waterfront & the Olympics blinkered people want to remove one of the last remaining mainline links to a cross channel port and more importantly the Channel Islands via the Condor Ferries. With modern 'Sprinter' trains that require no locomotives or run-round facilities the new development could easily accomodate a simple platform to the quayside and allow a seamless travel link for rail users from all over the UK. This would be even better were the Yeovil line to be improved instead of being run down. Why on earth direct trains from Paddington or even cross country services to Bristol and beyond are not being re-instated beats me. Weymouth will deeply regret the removal of this link and if the likes of Sheffield and other towns can cope with tramlines I don't see why cyclists in Weymouth can't either. All it requires is for the gaps to be hard rubber filled to support cycles and allow railway wheels to depress into the rubber and the problem is solved. It seems there are mindless folk hell bent on change for change sake instead of making better use of what is still there. Get real please Weymouth Cllrs.
Posted by: Peter Baylis, Nottingham on 10:50pm Tue 12 Aug 08
40 years ago in Nottngham they dug up all the old tram lines. Two years ago, Nottingham City Council had to spend millions to put back the lines for our new tram system. Please don't let your council make the same mistake.
40 years ago in Nottngham they dug up all the old tram lines. Two years ago, Nottingham City Council had to spend millions to put back the lines for our new tram system. Please don't let your council make the same mistake.
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