Council plan to demolish Pavilion and sell North Quay offices (From Dorset Echo)

annotator1 wrote:
Hmm. Perhaps more "Luxury Flats" for those who can't afford it.

biggestoaf wrote:
Read the story people. The government has cut the amount of money it gives to local government by 28% over the last two years. If your household income fell by 28% you'd have to make some pretty big changes. If that wasn't enough funding will continue to fall by almost £4 million a year for the next few years. Weymouth + Portland is not alone in having to make big cuts. Many councils are likely to go bankrupt. The simple truth is that the Pavilion is going to close thanks to David Cameron and George Osborne.

mark@greenhill wrote:
As long as it's a multistory car park, yes, wonderful idea.

At least it might actually pay for itself, rather than the present white elephant.

Seriously, if all the people who cry about it closing, used it more than twice a year, it would still be viable. As it is, it isn't & never will be, & unless it pays for itself, it should close.

windag wrote:
So all those on high pay such as the managers etc, move into new offices in Dorchester, the workers get the boot, less councillors, where will they meet then? no Guildhall no Pavillion, so this so called almagamation with West Dorset is what every body thought it was, a take over, any one who cares should see this is the end of Weymouth and Portland as it now stands with its own council, although there are a lot of negative comments at times about this council it will become as effective as a Parish Council, so be carefull what you wish for.
As for the Guildhall the loss of another historic building in the Borough, no wonder why the council are spending money on it, just like the pavillion let it run down then spend loads of money on it then the so called managers whinge about lack of funds, these bunch of clowns (C.E. and the higher paid executives) would not last five minutes in the real world.
So l presume this includes the Mayor or are they going to have a parlour at a refuse depot?
Why not use the Guildhall so at least we can keep some civic identity

JamesYoung wrote:

windag wrote:
So all those on high pay such as the managers etc, move into new offices in Dorchester, the workers get the boot, less councillors, where will they meet then? no Guildhall no Pavillion, so this so called almagamation with West Dorset is what every body thought it was, a take over, any one who cares should see this is the end of Weymouth and Portland as it now stands with its own council, although there are a lot of negative comments at times about this council it will become as effective as a Parish Council, so be carefull what you wish for.
As for the Guildhall the loss of another historic building in the Borough, no wonder why the council are spending money on it, just like the pavillion let it run down then spend loads of money on it then the so called managers whinge about lack of funds, these bunch of clowns (C.E. and the higher paid executives) would not last five minutes in the real world.
So l presume this includes the Mayor or are they going to have a parlour at a refuse depot?
Why not use the Guildhall so at least we can keep some civic identity

Why is this a bad thing? Do you really think one council running west dorset and Weymouth and Portland would be any worse than what we have now? The system would work much better if councillors were replaced with call centres and there was one council for the whole of Dorset. One set of councillors. One set of expenses. One payroll team. One it team. One finance team.

bedpans wrote:
Most of the councils senior officers seem to work at Dorchester now and have very little time for what goes on in Weymouth. Why not just do away with Weymouth all together and merge it with Dorchester.People said there would be a lasting legacy after the olympics and boy oh boy what a legacy.
Bring all the council officials into the town centre for public ridicule becuase they are clueless.

JamesYoung wrote:

windag wrote:
So all those on high pay such as the managers etc, move into new offices in Dorchester, the workers get the boot, less councillors, where will they meet then? no Guildhall no Pavillion, so this so called almagamation with West Dorset is what every body thought it was, a take over, any one who cares should see this is the end of Weymouth and Portland as it now stands with its own council, although there are a lot of negative comments at times about this council it will become as effective as a Parish Council, so be carefull what you wish for.
As for the Guildhall the loss of another historic building in the Borough, no wonder why the council are spending money on it, just like the pavillion let it run down then spend loads of money on it then the so called managers whinge about lack of funds, these bunch of clowns (C.E. and the higher paid executives) would not last five minutes in the real world.
So l presume this includes the Mayor or are they going to have a parlour at a refuse depot?
Why not use the Guildhall so at least we can keep some civic identity

Why is this a bad thing? Do you really think one council running west dorset and Weymouth and Portland would be any worse than what we have now? The system would work much better if councillors were replaced with call centres and there was one council for the whole of Dorset. One set of councillors. One set of expenses. One payroll team. One it team. One finance team.

greenglasses wrote:
so if I need to take some paperwork to the council offices where will I have to go....

portland rebel wrote:
knock down pavillion and open a pleasure park, we survive on tourists so why not something for them and a good income for the town.

shaun blondz wrote:
How many council officers does it take to carry a Jubilee Clock to Cash Converters? Fairly soon I think we'll find out...

ManOnTheSilverMounta
in wrote:
Anyone else feel like the Council really don't know what's going on?

I mean last week they were talking about closing a stretch of the seafront to traffic, and discouraging traffic in the town with the new park and ride.

This week, it's flatten the pavilion and turn it into a carpark....

DickDastardly wrote:
I really do think that the council are working for another district and driving the tourists there. Brewers Quay turned into a building site, the town centre is becoming a mecca for charity shops, no ferry, (we will see if that ever gets completed), now get rid of the pavillion. Not much left to attract the tourists other than a beach. Amazing Incompetence and lack of foresight by the council over the years. The more attractions the council kill off the less tourists arrive the next year and so the bigger the shortfall in funds again and more things have to close etc...

DickDastardly wrote:
I really do think that the council are working for another district and driving the tourists there. Brewers Quay turned into a building site, the town centre is becoming a mecca for charity shops, no ferry, (we will see if that ever gets completed), now get rid of the pavillion. Not much left to attract the tourists other than a beach. Amazing Incompetence and lack of foresight by the council over the years. The more attractions the council kill off the less tourists arrive the next year and so the bigger the shortfall in funds again and more things have to close etc...

monkeydog wrote:
This has got ' missed opportunity' written all over it.

Top Gear wrote:
As long as my council tax doesnt go up the council can do what ever they want.

westendcat wrote:
Weymouth Council should also sell 47a The Esplanade, a four bedroom seafront residential property that has been vacant for at least 3 years - yes, during the Olympics as well!!. They've lost thousands on this property alone and the Council's Brief-holder does'nt even know about it. Property management - what a joke!
Come on Harry Hogger, get on the case.

biggestoaf wrote:
Read the story people. The government has cut the amount of money it gives to local government by 28% over the last two years. If your household income fell by 28% you'd have to make some pretty big changes. If that wasn't enough funding will continue to fall by almost £4 million a year for the next few years. Weymouth + Portland is not alone in having to make big cuts. Many councils are likely to go bankrupt. The simple truth is that the Pavilion is going to close thanks to David Cameron and George Osborne.

Caption Sensible wrote:
A resort without a theatre for the performing arts is a very dull place...

Why not let a commercial organisation run it? Or even build a new facility somewhere else in the borough?

A car park on a prime waterfront location is just unthinkable.

Tactical wrote:
Sell the lot couldnt give a toss weymouth council are the biggest wasters in Europe, and now they will carry on there trend vote in UKIP or BNP or CLEAR and make a change ! next time you vote !

portlandresident wrote:
Give it to another company, who can run and manage it better, and still give the people what they want, at less expense to the tax payer! That has to be a viable option.

mark@greenhill wrote:

portlandresident wrote:
Give it to another company, who can run and manage it better, and still give the people what they want, at less expense to the tax payer! That has to be a viable option.

Unfortunately, as it stand, the Pavilion loses money. It would be a difficult job of offloading this building in relatively good times, why on earth would someone want to take it on today.

To get anyone interested, would require yet more investment from the taxpayers, & even then the new company would almost certainly require a commitment from the council to underwright the venture.

The simple fact is, there are not enough people going to the theatre, who would be able to pay the going rate to support this building, nor is there any likelyhood that there ever will be.

mark@greenhill wrote:

Caption Sensible wrote:
A resort without a theatre for the performing arts is a very dull place...

Why not let a commercial organisation run it? Or even build a new facility somewhere else in the borough?

A car park on a prime waterfront location is just unthinkable.

Agreed, but as has been proved, theatre going minority, have absolutely no intention of financially supporting the Pavilion, and in these tough times, it seems very wrong, for the majority to have to finance, a minority interest hobby.

The Pavilion is an outdated relic that has never paid it's way, and along with the vast majority of residents of this town, fail to see why we should have to pay for it.

If the few that want it saved, would like to pay for it, then fine, but we already know, they can't or wont be able to do this.

At least a car park with pay it's way, and leave the land available for the time that property prices increase, when it can then be sold to a developer at the best price.

The upkeep of a car park, will be a fraction of the upkeep of the present building.

Eventually, a property developer will want some prime building land, and yes, I'm more than happy to see luxury flats, with restaurants or shops beneath them.

mark@greenhill wrote:
How many years does this argument have to keep coming up, before the reality of the situation hits home, and the pavilion is demolished.

Then we can all ask, why we didn't do it much, much sooner.

To all those wishing to see it stay open, please feel free to put your hands in your own pockets, and fund it yourselves. the majority of us, never use it, never visit it, & have had enough of paying for your extremely expensive hobby.

brutus wrote:

biggestoaf wrote: Read the story people. The government has cut the amount of money it gives to local government by 28% over the last two years. If your household income fell by 28% you'd have to make some pretty big changes. If that wasn't enough funding will continue to fall by almost £4 million a year for the next few years. Weymouth + Portland is not alone in having to make big cuts. Many councils are likely to go bankrupt. The simple truth is that the Pavilion is going to close thanks to David Cameron and George Osborne.

Don't forget Gordan Brown and his bunch that bankrupted this country

biggestoaf wrote:

brutus wrote:

biggestoaf wrote: Read the story people. The government has cut the amount of money it gives to local government by 28% over the last two years. If your household income fell by 28% you'd have to make some pretty big changes. If that wasn't enough funding will continue to fall by almost £4 million a year for the next few years. Weymouth + Portland is not alone in having to make big cuts. Many councils are likely to go bankrupt. The simple truth is that the Pavilion is going to close thanks to David Cameron and George Osborne.

Don't forget Gordan Brown and his bunch that bankrupted this country

It wasn't the banks who caused a global financial crisis then? Gordan (sic) Brown and his bunch were to blame for Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc etc ? There weren't years and years of steady growth under Labour, or did I just dream that? You can try to justify Cameron and Osborne's tactics if you want to, but it's simplistic and inaccurate to suggest that the financial problems are all Gordon Brown's fault.

biggestoaf wrote:
I don't believe I'm being either simplistic or inaccurate (but then I would say that, wouldn't I?) Whatever the rights and wrongs of the way the Tory led council has used its money, it is still true to say that the Pavilion could (not necessarily should) have been kept open if it were not for the big cuts in funding for local government from Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne.

Isosceles wrote:
Cathy Page-Nash from the Friends of the Pavilion said it was essential that Weymouth had a theatre and welcomed the suggestion for a new venue.
Dictionary definitions of essential include indispensable, vitally important and vital to the resolution of a crisis.
I would suggest that, except to a limited number of people, those definitions do not apply to the provision of a theatre in Weymouth however desirable a theatre might be to some people.
These people should put their hands in their own pockets or set up an organisation to raise the money to either take total financial responsibility in perpetuity for the current Pavilion or buy some land somewhere and erect a new theatre and run that.

mark@greenhill wrote:
As long as it's a multistory car park, yes, wonderful idea.

At least it might actually pay for itself, rather than the present white elephant.

Seriously, if all the people who cry about it closing, used it more than twice a year, it would still be viable. As it is, it isn't & never will be, & unless it pays for itself, it should close.

Yellowcave wrote:
Why does the online echo have two versions of the same story? I put my comment on the least read one first, but it is valid for this one as well.

I must be getting cynical in my old age.
As soon as I heard about the merging of WPBC and WDDC under the guise of Westwey and the appointment of the WDDC CEO as a joint WPBC WDDC CEO, which I still cant remember the public being consulted about, I assumed that WPBC would disappear as a standalone entity in the near future. I dont understand the new Westwey setup at all but the fact that WDDC have reportedly forked out millions on new, unnecessary. over budget offices in Dorchester, which has to be funded from somewhere, probably means that Westwey admin functions will follow the CEO and the money gained from selling the North Quay Municipal Offices can go towards the WPBC contribution to Westwey's new flagship office complex in Dorchester.
The way local government works, the council officers make plans and proposals, which they then present to the elected councilors for approval. If the councilors propose something themselves which does not gel with the officers there are ways and means of ensuring that nothing actually happens. So, allowing for the fact that the majority of council officers will work under the WDDC CEO , it is unlikely that the WPBC council will have much control soon, so why not minimise the costs as well as accountability. We have already seen what irreparable damage can be done in 4 year periods nationally.

Incidentally, I thought that the Thatcher and Blair years showed the futility of floggng off the assets to hide the holes in funding for a couple of more years.
You still end up in difficulties, but now you have nothing.

mark@greenhill wrote:

biggestoaf wrote: I don't believe I'm being either simplistic or inaccurate (but then I would say that, wouldn't I?) Whatever the rights and wrongs of the way the Tory led council has used its money, it is still true to say that the Pavilion could (not necessarily should) have been kept open if it were not for the big cuts in funding for local government from Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne.

Which brings us back to the same issue. If the Pavilion paid it's way, it wouldn't matter what the council or the Govt did with the money. Unless it is financially self supporting, it should close & be redeveloped into something that does pay it's way, or at least isn't a massive drain on the finances. Only the loony left could possibly imagine that pouring yet more cash into a building that has always lost money, could ever be a good idea.

Douglas Mc wrote:

Yellowcave wrote:
Why does the online echo have two versions of the same story? I put my comment on the least read one first, but it is valid for this one as well.

I must be getting cynical in my old age.
As soon as I heard about the merging of WPBC and WDDC under the guise of Westwey and the appointment of the WDDC CEO as a joint WPBC WDDC CEO, which I still cant remember the public being consulted about, I assumed that WPBC would disappear as a standalone entity in the near future. I dont understand the new Westwey setup at all but the fact that WDDC have reportedly forked out millions on new, unnecessary. over budget offices in Dorchester, which has to be funded from somewhere, probably means that Westwey admin functions will follow the CEO and the money gained from selling the North Quay Municipal Offices can go towards the WPBC contribution to Westwey's new flagship office complex in Dorchester.
The way local government works, the council officers make plans and proposals, which they then present to the elected councilors for approval. If the councilors propose something themselves which does not gel with the officers there are ways and means of ensuring that nothing actually happens. So, allowing for the fact that the majority of council officers will work under the WDDC CEO , it is unlikely that the WPBC council will have much control soon, so why not minimise the costs as well as accountability. We have already seen what irreparable damage can be done in 4 year periods nationally.

Incidentally, I thought that the Thatcher and Blair years showed the futility of floggng off the assets to hide the holes in funding for a couple of more years.
You still end up in difficulties, but now you have nothing.

It is always a shame to let facts interfere with a good story.

WDDC are saving money by building their new Offices. Less staff are needed, expensive repairs to old offices no longer required, lower electricity costs etc. And the new building will cost some £1M less than Budget.

Proof is that WDDC Council tax is cheaper than Weymouth’s. WDDC is not in debt, WDDC is not cutting services. WDDC has one of the lowest Council Tax Rates in the UK and is a top rated performing Council. W&PBC in comparison is pathetic – partly because it has not been under one party control recently – so it is led by Officers.

For WDDC to take over W&P a decision would have to be made by Central Government. The most likely option is to do away with the County Council, the 6 DCs (inc WD & W&P) and set up either one or two Unitary Authorities.

The Public would not be consulted. No point electing Councillors, MPs etc if they cannot take decisions on behalf of Joe Public.

And Tourism is not good for Councils –it adds to costs, fireworks, Pavilion, tourist centres but the Council gets few if any return to its coffers.

More importantly, tourism creates only seasonal and low paid jobs. We should have knocked down the hotels build offices on the front and sought to attract good jobs into the area for our Children. As it is when educated they have to leave the area to get well paid jobs.

So never vote for a Councillor who has a tourism interest?

Douglas Mc wrote:

Yellowcave wrote:
Why does the online echo have two versions of the same story? I put my comment on the least read one first, but it is valid for this one as well.

I must be getting cynical in my old age.
As soon as I heard about the merging of WPBC and WDDC under the guise of Westwey and the appointment of the WDDC CEO as a joint WPBC WDDC CEO, which I still cant remember the public being consulted about, I assumed that WPBC would disappear as a standalone entity in the near future. I dont understand the new Westwey setup at all but the fact that WDDC have reportedly forked out millions on new, unnecessary. over budget offices in Dorchester, which has to be funded from somewhere, probably means that Westwey admin functions will follow the CEO and the money gained from selling the North Quay Municipal Offices can go towards the WPBC contribution to Westwey's new flagship office complex in Dorchester.
The way local government works, the council officers make plans and proposals, which they then present to the elected councilors for approval. If the councilors propose something themselves which does not gel with the officers there are ways and means of ensuring that nothing actually happens. So, allowing for the fact that the majority of council officers will work under the WDDC CEO , it is unlikely that the WPBC council will have much control soon, so why not minimise the costs as well as accountability. We have already seen what irreparable damage can be done in 4 year periods nationally.

Incidentally, I thought that the Thatcher and Blair years showed the futility of floggng off the assets to hide the holes in funding for a couple of more years.
You still end up in difficulties, but now you have nothing.

It is always a shame to let facts interfere with a good story.

WDDC are saving money by building their new Offices. Less staff are needed, expensive repairs to old offices no longer required, lower electricity costs etc. And the new building will cost some £1M less than Budget.

Proof is that WDDC Council tax is cheaper than Weymouth’s. WDDC is not in debt, WDDC is not cutting services. WDDC has one of the lowest Council Tax Rates in the UK and is a top rated performing Council. W&PBC in comparison is pathetic – partly because it has not been under one party control recently – so it is led by Officers.

For WDDC to take over W&P a decision would have to be made by Central Government. The most likely option is to do away with the County Council, the 6 DCs (inc WD & W&P) and set up either one or two Unitary Authorities.

The Public would not be consulted. No point electing Councillors, MPs etc if they cannot take decisions on behalf of Joe Public.

And Tourism is not good for Councils –it adds to costs, fireworks, Pavilion, tourist centres but the Council gets few if any return to its coffers.

More importantly, tourism creates only seasonal and low paid jobs. We should have knocked down the hotels build offices on the front and sought to attract good jobs into the area for our Children. As it is when educated they have to leave the area to get well paid jobs.

So never vote for a Councillor who has a tourism interest?