Travellers given a week to clear and move from council car park in Weymouth (From Dorset Echo)

banknote wrote:
A question.

Why is it that if we parked illegally, we would be fined and yet
"Travellers" are exempt from both the law and fines?

Are the councils saying that there is diiferent laws for these folk? I was under the impression that all sections of society lived under the law?

Answers please; Dorset County Council and Weymouth & Portland Council.

JimmyDavies wrote:
Lets face it, if it was us parking there for AN HOUR over the time we would have a pretty big fine. But this lot can just walk all over the council and get away with free parking for a week....10 days, month, the summer. Our council, is completely and utterly useless. And WE are now paying for a LIAISON officer. what! How much does she get paid? I tell you what all these shambles its about time the public got together and everyone stopped paying council tax, it's a waste of time, complete waste of money. £160 a month I pay, what the hell for?

JamesYoung wrote:

JimmyDavies wrote: Lets face it, if it was us parking there for AN HOUR over the time we would have a pretty big fine. But this lot can just walk all over the council and get away with free parking for a week....10 days, month, the summer. Our council, is completely and utterly useless. And WE are now paying for a LIAISON officer. what! How much does she get paid? I tell you what all these shambles its about time the public got together and everyone stopped paying council tax, it's a waste of time, complete waste of money. £160 a month I pay, what the hell for?

We don't just have a liaison officer, we have an "awareness week" here in Dorchester every year in which we get to understand traveller culture.

cj07589 wrote:
This lot make a complete mockery of the law. If everybody did what they wanted where would society be? Personally I am sick and tired of playing by the rules and others completely ignoring it without penalty.

JamesYoung wrote:

cj07589 wrote:
This lot make a complete mockery of the law. If everybody did what they wanted where would society be? Personally I am sick and tired of playing by the rules and others completely ignoring it without penalty.

Yeah! let's get a camper van. We could travel around the country and solve mysteries, park where we like, and our benefits would pay to feed Scooby!

JimmyDavies wrote:
Lets face it, if it was us parking there for AN HOUR over the time we would have a pretty big fine. But this lot can just walk all over the council and get away with free parking for a week....10 days, month, the summer. Our council, is completely and utterly useless. And WE are now paying for a LIAISON officer. what! How much does she get paid? I tell you what all these shambles its about time the public got together and everyone stopped paying council tax, it's a waste of time, complete waste of money. £160 a month I pay, what the hell for?

micky48 wrote:
can someone please tell me where i get my free travellers pack ie the stickers and rule book

banknote wrote:
Thursday and still no answers from Dorset County Council and Weymouth & Portland Borough Council.............

..

EtaoinShrdlu wrote:
You ain't seen nothin' yet. Wait till the Romanian branch of the travelling mafia arrive. And society gets the government (or lack of it) it deserves. Think about it.

banknote wrote:
A question.

Why is it that if we parked illegally, we would be fined and yet
"Travellers" are exempt from both the law and fines?

Are the councils saying that there is diiferent laws for these folk? I was under the impression that all sections of society lived under the law?

Answers please; Dorset County Council and Weymouth & Portland Council.

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

Von Karajan wrote:
misshsl, you'll probably find that the travellers are richer than what you think! It helps when you don't pay any tax! You sound like a young,naive,liberal teenager. Come back after 30 plus years of work and paying taxes and tell us then what you think?

Von Karajan wrote:
misshsl, you'll probably find that the travellers are richer than what you think! It helps when you don't pay any tax! You sound like a young,naive,liberal teenager. Come back after 30 plus years of work and paying taxes and tell us then what you think?

JamesYoung wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

What utter tosh.

The Tax Justice Network estimates £68bn a year is lost in tax avoidance and evasion. Note that most of this is wealthy corporations rather than individuals.

So to get to £10 trillion, you'd have to count all the tax avoided for the last 147 years and you'd still be wrong, because GDP today is £1.39tn, but as late as 1950, it was under £0.25tn.

http://www.guardian.

co.uk/commentisfree/

2011/nov/25/evaded-t

ax-evasion-cuts

What you may be talking about is the value of assets that has been hidden offshore, which has been estimated as around £20tn. However, this is (1) the value of the assets not the amount of tax avoided on them and (2) a global total, not a UK one.

http://www.taxjustic

e.net/cms/upload/pdf

/The_Price_of_Offsho

re_Revisited_Presser

_120722.pdf

That aside, it is generally accepted that two wrongs don't make a right, and while it would clearly be desirable to end avoidance and evasion, it is not going to put any money in the council's pocket this year. Fining travellers for breaking the law, as the rest of us are fined for breaking the law, ensures fairness and recoups some of the cost of catering for these groups.

If you are going to quote statistics, don't make them up and if you have to make them up, at least make them believable!

Von Karajan wrote:
misshsl, you'll probably find that the travellers are richer than what you think! It helps when you don't pay any tax! You sound like a young,naive,liberal teenager. Come back after 30 plus years of work and paying taxes and tell us then what you think?

Bob Goulding wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

So let me get this right: You would prefer anarchy over the rule of law?

JamesYoung wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

What utter tosh.

The Tax Justice Network estimates £68bn a year is lost in tax avoidance and evasion. Note that most of this is wealthy corporations rather than individuals.

So to get to £10 trillion, you'd have to count all the tax avoided for the last 147 years and you'd still be wrong, because GDP today is £1.39tn, but as late as 1950, it was under £0.25tn.

http://www.guardian.

co.uk/commentisfree/

2011/nov/25/evaded-t

ax-evasion-cuts

What you may be talking about is the value of assets that has been hidden offshore, which has been estimated as around £20tn. However, this is (1) the value of the assets not the amount of tax avoided on them and (2) a global total, not a UK one.

http://www.taxjustic

e.net/cms/upload/pdf

/The_Price_of_Offsho

re_Revisited_Presser

_120722.pdf

That aside, it is generally accepted that two wrongs don't make a right, and while it would clearly be desirable to end avoidance and evasion, it is not going to put any money in the council's pocket this year. Fining travellers for breaking the law, as the rest of us are fined for breaking the law, ensures fairness and recoups some of the cost of catering for these groups.

If you are going to quote statistics, don't make them up and if you have to make them up, at least make them believable!

Von Karajan wrote:
misshsl, you'll probably find that the travellers are richer than what you think! It helps when you don't pay any tax! You sound like a young,naive,liberal teenager. Come back after 30 plus years of work and paying taxes and tell us then what you think?

misshls wrote:

Von Karajan wrote:
misshsl, you'll probably find that the travellers are richer than what you think! It helps when you don't pay any tax! You sound like a young,naive,liberal teenager. Come back after 30 plus years of work and paying taxes and tell us then what you think?

Shame that you can't enter into a healthy debate without having to make silly assumptions!
For sure it helps when you don't pay tax just like the super rich and companies such as Amazon, starbucks, google, vodaphone and on and on and on and on..........

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
Does anyone know if Ruper Murdoch lives in Dorset now? I ask as it would seem like a good place to live if he did.
Everyone commenting here seems to a right wing retiree with a grudge against nearly every section of society, either that or barely able to operate a computer to write a response.
If we attributed a traffic light scoring system to societies offenders, the travellers would barely be in the amber, and we are rubbing shoulders with people that would be pushing out of the red.
Dorset does not start off where the Daily Express finishes. If you have retired here thinking that's the case I'm sorry to inform you otherwise.

misshls wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

What utter tosh.

The Tax Justice Network estimates £68bn a year is lost in tax avoidance and evasion. Note that most of this is wealthy corporations rather than individuals.

So to get to £10 trillion, you'd have to count all the tax avoided for the last 147 years and you'd still be wrong, because GDP today is £1.39tn, but as late as 1950, it was under £0.25tn.

http://www.guardian.


co.uk/commentisfree/


2011/nov/25/evaded-t


ax-evasion-cuts

What you may be talking about is the value of assets that has been hidden offshore, which has been estimated as around £20tn. However, this is (1) the value of the assets not the amount of tax avoided on them and (2) a global total, not a UK one.

http://www.taxjustic


e.net/cms/upload/pdf


/The_Price_of_Offsho


re_Revisited_Presser


_120722.pdf

That aside, it is generally accepted that two wrongs don't make a right, and while it would clearly be desirable to end avoidance and evasion, it is not going to put any money in the council's pocket this year. Fining travellers for breaking the law, as the rest of us are fined for breaking the law, ensures fairness and recoups some of the cost of catering for these groups.

If you are going to quote statistics, don't make them up and if you have to make them up, at least make them believable!

Apologies, I didn't mean the UK alone

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
Your figures are ridiculous even without checking them. If there are 100k travellers I'd be amazed. They illustrate to me you have no grasp of what's real, just what you read in the papers. Quel surprise...
I don't agree with what the travellers do but I recognise their place in the greater scheme of things, and that is they are small fry.
What does severely damage our society or 'The British way of life' to put it in your parlance, is non participants. People that think its someone else's job to do everything.
Crime doesn't flourish because a few oddballs refuse to settle in a house, or a few Eastern Europeans manage to crawl along the channel tunnel.
Crime flourishes because people sit behind the walls of thier houses and refuse to interact with their own societies other than in some sanitised way that leaves them with an escape route back to the bolt hole. It flourishes because we don't question the decisions of those in office, we just sit back and hope they are doing their job.
Crime flourishes because you let it. Policing is a job for everyone. Municipal decision making is a job for everyone. Teaching our kids is a job for everyone.
Groups like the 'travellers' exist because people like you JamesYoung exist. With a strong community, they would simply have no reason for being.

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
Your figures are ridiculous even without checking them. If there are 100k travellers I'd be amazed. They illustrate to me you have no grasp of what's real, just what you read in the papers. Quel surprise... I don't agree with what the travellers do but I recognise their place in the greater scheme of things, and that is they are small fry. What does severely damage our society or 'The British way of life' to put it in your parlance, is non participants. People that think its someone else's job to do everything. Crime doesn't flourish because a few oddballs refuse to settle in a house, or a few Eastern Europeans manage to crawl along the channel tunnel. Crime flourishes because people sit behind the walls of thier houses and refuse to interact with their own societies other than in some sanitised way that leaves them with an escape route back to the bolt hole. It flourishes because we don't question the decisions of those in office, we just sit back and hope they are doing their job. Crime flourishes because you let it. Policing is a job for everyone. Municipal decision making is a job for everyone. Teaching our kids is a job for everyone. Groups like the 'travellers' exist because people like you JamesYoung exist. With a strong community, they would simply have no reason for being.

misshls wrote:

Bob Goulding wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

So let me get this right: You would prefer anarchy over the rule of law?

Erm, no! Where did I say that? I'm just pointing out the fact that people get so upset over issues like this, when the real issues that really have an impact upon our lives (ie banks, tax avoidence for the rich etc etc) no one says a word! funny that!

Bob Goulding wrote:

misshls wrote:

Bob Goulding wrote:

misshls wrote:
By the end of the year of 2010, the top richest elite in this country got away without paying 12 trillion pounds towards our tax system. But people are too busy moaning about a bunch of travellers, I wish people were as passionate about hating banks and tax dodging multi national companies etc instead let's blame it all on the poor. I worry for humanity, this thinking has got to stop. The tv show newsnight covered this issue - the fact that people will happily get upset over someone claiming benefits yet if the banking crisis is mentioned no one is interested!

So let me get this right: You would prefer anarchy over the rule of law?

Erm, no! Where did I say that? I'm just pointing out the fact that people get so upset over issues like this, when the real issues that really have an impact upon our lives (ie banks, tax avoidence for the rich etc etc) no one says a word! funny that!

Travellers are anarchists yet you appear to be prepared to condone their behavour and allow them to continue with their lawlessness lifestyle unchallenged.

koeterwaals wrote:
If this happened in continental Europe they would be forcibly removed immediately (like they regularly do in France). Why is Britain so wishy washy in situations like this?

JamesYoung wrote:

banknote wrote: A question. Why is it that if we parked illegally, we would be fined and yet "Travellers" are exempt from both the law and fines? Are the councils saying that there is diiferent laws for these folk? I was under the impression that all sections of society lived under the law? Answers please; Dorset County Council and Weymouth & Portland Council.

Irishman + illegally parked car, no caravan = parking fine. Irishman + illegally parked car plus caravan = ethic group. Why do you think the law is different? :-)

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
cjetc - the law is demonstrably not applied consistently. Are you working for the home office? Have you been in a hole like Hussein for the last thirty years? Are you a heroin addict? I'd suggest not saying I have a bizarre outlook unless you are 100% sure of your arguments - and your grasp of them is at best flimsy from what I have seen.

JamesYoung - evidence from any religious organisation is for me completely useless. I am well travelled in this country and others and if there is 100k travellers at large, nicking caravans etc ill publicly withdraw my comments with an apology. I base my understanding on empirical evidence not spurious findings of any group with a political agenda.
Great so we agree that tax avoidance is the issue. Fine. Again I return to the fact that the responsibility for teaching others how to act lies with those benefiting most from tax, namely everyone in and around government, behind the scene business supporters, ministers, civil servants etc.
Again - tax is an issue because a lot of money has dropped out of circulation. It has not evaporated, someone is still holding the assets that the money represents.

Elvet1 wrote:

JamesYoung wrote:

banknote wrote: A question. Why is it that if we parked illegally, we would be fined and yet "Travellers" are exempt from both the law and fines? Are the councils saying that there is diiferent laws for these folk? I was under the impression that all sections of society lived under the law? Answers please; Dorset County Council and Weymouth & Portland Council.

Irishman + illegally parked car, no caravan = parking fine. Irishman + illegally parked car plus caravan = ethic group. Why do you think the law is different? :-)

This is not a parking issue. It is a question of the treatment given to Travellers of all sorts. Irish Travellers are subject to the law, indeed they are recognised in law as an ethnic group, as are all Travelling People. There are different laws for Travellers, because the laws which apply to those of us who live in houses often make no sense in their circumstances. There are also laws protecting ethnic minorities, which also need to be applied. Insp. Fry's comments are reasonable and show that the law will be applied impartially and correctly.

Bob Goulding wrote:
As far as I can tell there is no specific definition of an ethnic group. According to the general definition we are all members of one ethnic group or another but that this does mean that we should be treated differently in the eyes of the law. In fact equal opportunities and racial discrimination legislation exists to ensure that we are all entitled to the same treatment and are subject to the same laws. The system only falls down when the law is not enforced.