Warning as firefighters set to strike on New Year's Eve

Dorset Echo: TAKE CARE: Chief fire officer Darran Gunter is urging people to take extra care TAKE CARE: Chief fire officer Darran Gunter is urging people to take extra care

DORSET Fire and Rescue Service is urging members of the public to take extra care when fire fighters strike over the new year.

Further industrial action is planned for New Year’s Eve between 6.30pm and 12.30am and on Friday, January 3 between 6.30am and 8.30am.

Fire chiefs said a reduced emergency response service will be provided and urged people to take extra care.

Members of the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) in England and Wales are set to take action in a dispute over pensions.

Scottish firefighters voted against a strike but will operate an overtime ban in support.

This will be the seventh strike since September and the union says the government is refusing to honour agreements over pension arrangements.

Dorset Chief Fire Officer Darran Gunter said: “While the industrial action is ongoing we will still be responding to 999 calls, but we are asking members of the public to take extra steps during the festive period, to reduce the risk of a fire breaking out in their home.

“At this time of year, the home can be full of fire hazards from decorations to cooking.

“The best advice we can give is for everyone to ensure they have a smoke alarm in their home and to check the battery is working at least once a week.

“Smoke detectors provide an early warning of a fire and can give occupants vital extra minutes to escape, especially at night.

“But a smoke alarm can only save your life if it is working and the battery is checked regularly.”

He added: “With family and friends visiting your home over the festive season too, it’s really important to ensure everyone knows how to escape in the event of a fire.

“Having an escape plan and making sure everyone staying in the house knows it might not be the most interesting topic of conversation this Christmas, but it could save lives.”

More than 50 per cent of fires in the home, attended by Dorset Fire and Rescue Service in the last year, started in the kitchen.

Comments (28)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

7:42am Mon 30 Dec 13

arlbergbahn says...

Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions?
Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions? arlbergbahn

9:48am Mon 30 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions?
That's a question you should be asking their employer, the government. They are the ones reneging on contracts of employment.
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions?[/p][/quote]That's a question you should be asking their employer, the government. They are the ones reneging on contracts of employment. woodsedge

10:13am Mon 30 Dec 13

Dorsetdumpling says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions?
So just what else do you suggest they do then?
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: Sorry, just irresponsible. Explain how you can justify putting people's lives at risk because of a squabble about money, as Industrial Disputes almost invariably are, please, Unions?[/p][/quote]So just what else do you suggest they do then? Dorsetdumpling

10:34am Mon 30 Dec 13

elloello1980 says...

df
df elloello1980

10:36am Mon 30 Dec 13

elloello1980 says...

Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money.

Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government! elloello1980

11:12am Mon 30 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

elloello1980 wrote:
Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money.

Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Well said, about time we focused on those that have created this mess, the politicians red, blue and grey. Less squabbling amongst the working classes and more blame at the feet of the decision makers.
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government![/p][/quote]Well said, about time we focused on those that have created this mess, the politicians red, blue and grey. Less squabbling amongst the working classes and more blame at the feet of the decision makers. woodsedge

1:41pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Rodwellocal says...

elloello1980 wrote:
Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government![/p][/quote]Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions? Rodwellocal

2:02pm Mon 30 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

Rodwellocal wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?
Not the old "serving the crown" chestnut. Firstly, I have nothing but respect and admiration for our armed services. Secondly, it is the successive governments that have put our armed forces needlessly in places of danger namely Iraq and Afghanistan. The consequences of this is that hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including our brave servicemen, have paid the ultimate sacrifice with their lives. If you take Afghanistan as an example the current crop of inadequate politicians are scratching around trying to turn this disaster into a victory! Returning to the issue of the fire fighters and their dispute with the government, these individuals equally serve the country and have contracts of employment with the employer (us) that should be honoured. Their pension offered is part of the remuneration package and is "realistic pension" and a honourable government would standby those contracts.
[quote][p][bold]Rodwellocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government![/p][/quote]Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?[/p][/quote]Not the old "serving the crown" chestnut. Firstly, I have nothing but respect and admiration for our armed services. Secondly, it is the successive governments that have put our armed forces needlessly in places of danger namely Iraq and Afghanistan. The consequences of this is that hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including our brave servicemen, have paid the ultimate sacrifice with their lives. If you take Afghanistan as an example the current crop of inadequate politicians are scratching around trying to turn this disaster into a victory! Returning to the issue of the fire fighters and their dispute with the government, these individuals equally serve the country and have contracts of employment with the employer (us) that should be honoured. Their pension offered is part of the remuneration package and is "realistic pension" and a honourable government would standby those contracts. woodsedge

2:14pm Mon 30 Dec 13

elloello1980 says...

Rodwellocal wrote:
elloello1980 wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?
odd assumption to mention service personnel? or maybe just a narrow minded assumption.

Although 'war' is a part of my statmement. war = profit

I've loved watching the Ambassadors, a very funny take on the example I've given above.
[quote][p][bold]Rodwellocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government![/p][/quote]Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?[/p][/quote]odd assumption to mention service personnel? or maybe just a narrow minded assumption. Although 'war' is a part of my statmement. war = profit I've loved watching the Ambassadors, a very funny take on the example I've given above. elloello1980

2:18pm Mon 30 Dec 13

elloello1980 says...

woodsedge wrote:
Rodwellocal wrote:
elloello1980 wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government!
Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?
Not the old "serving the crown" chestnut. Firstly, I have nothing but respect and admiration for our armed services. Secondly, it is the successive governments that have put our armed forces needlessly in places of danger namely Iraq and Afghanistan. The consequences of this is that hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including our brave servicemen, have paid the ultimate sacrifice with their lives. If you take Afghanistan as an example the current crop of inadequate politicians are scratching around trying to turn this disaster into a victory! Returning to the issue of the fire fighters and their dispute with the government, these individuals equally serve the country and have contracts of employment with the employer (us) that should be honoured. Their pension offered is part of the remuneration package and is "realistic pension" and a honourable government would standby those contracts.
I remember reading that Cameron said yes to a journalist's question of, "are our troops leaving with victory?" Then a day later, another serviceman lost in the country.
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rodwellocal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: Let's not criticise the frontline heroes who save lives for small money. Let's fight the ones at top, profiting from killing millions. The government![/p][/quote]Whilst it is unfortunate that the Fire & Rescue service are unwilling to accept the economic world we live in & are unwilling to accept realistic pensions, I am rather shocked to hear that the encumbent government has, presumably in the last 2 years or so, killed millions. I am aware that over 400 service personnel have tragically died in combat missions serving the crown (as I presume firemen do). Could you elaborate on the apparent genocide committed by this government, resulting in the deaths of millions?[/p][/quote]Not the old "serving the crown" chestnut. Firstly, I have nothing but respect and admiration for our armed services. Secondly, it is the successive governments that have put our armed forces needlessly in places of danger namely Iraq and Afghanistan. The consequences of this is that hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including our brave servicemen, have paid the ultimate sacrifice with their lives. If you take Afghanistan as an example the current crop of inadequate politicians are scratching around trying to turn this disaster into a victory! Returning to the issue of the fire fighters and their dispute with the government, these individuals equally serve the country and have contracts of employment with the employer (us) that should be honoured. Their pension offered is part of the remuneration package and is "realistic pension" and a honourable government would standby those contracts.[/p][/quote]I remember reading that Cameron said yes to a journalist's question of, "are our troops leaving with victory?" Then a day later, another serviceman lost in the country. elloello1980

2:30pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Jenny Barnes says...

Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job. Jenny Barnes

4:53pm Mon 30 Dec 13

smilealoft44 says...

Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
[quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles. smilealoft44

7:49pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Parkstreetshufle says...

smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
[quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry. Parkstreetshufle

8:30pm Mon 30 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.[/p][/quote]You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible. woodsedge

8:44pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Jenny Barnes says...

smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
I have had a fire in my time and the crews did a good job, however it does not give them the right to hold the country to ransom and put peoples lives at risk. If they cannot be responsible at ALL times, they should not be in the job.
[quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]I have had a fire in my time and the crews did a good job, however it does not give them the right to hold the country to ransom and put peoples lives at risk. If they cannot be responsible at ALL times, they should not be in the job. Jenny Barnes

10:12pm Mon 30 Dec 13

common cence says...

Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Hear hear get rid of the greedy scum , plenty of people CAN and would do there job , Selfish jobs worth,s
[quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Hear hear get rid of the greedy scum , plenty of people CAN and would do there job , Selfish jobs worth,s common cence

10:22pm Mon 30 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

common cence wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Hear hear get rid of the greedy scum , plenty of people CAN and would do there job , Selfish jobs worth,s
Which village is missing an idiot tonight?
[quote][p][bold]common cence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Hear hear get rid of the greedy scum , plenty of people CAN and would do there job , Selfish jobs worth,s[/p][/quote]Which village is missing an idiot tonight? woodsedge

10:41pm Mon 30 Dec 13

Parkstreetshufle says...

woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.
I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level.
Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face.
My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.[/p][/quote]You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.[/p][/quote]I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level. Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face. My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority. Parkstreetshufle

7:38am Tue 31 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.
I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level.
Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face.
My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.
I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.[/p][/quote]You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.[/p][/quote]I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level. Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face. My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.[/p][/quote]I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people. woodsedge

10:57am Tue 31 Dec 13

westbaywonder says...

Dennis deserves a rest anyway,
and dont plan any fires to claim on the insurance as they will have been already informed and any fires during strike hours will be looked on as highly suspicious.
Dennis deserves a rest anyway, and dont plan any fires to claim on the insurance as they will have been already informed and any fires during strike hours will be looked on as highly suspicious. westbaywonder

12:11pm Tue 31 Dec 13

JamesYoung says...

woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.
I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level.
Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face.
My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.
I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people.
I think you hit the nail on the head in the last sentence, Woodsedge. People in the private sector are suffering far worse deprivations than in the public sector, but nobody is there to stand up for them and no government is interested in measures that protect them. Those that have been introduced (minimum wage) are designed to subsidise business not help individuals. Personally i think the government needs to nationalise all pension funds and then pay everybody the same (which would be higher than minimum wage) but it won't happen.
In the case of the Fire Service, I do agree with their cause, but if somebody in Dorset dies as a consequence, I hold the strikers entirely responsible. It is not the government that has locked the doors and gone home.
Do i have an alternative approach? No. Maybe this is what it has now come to - people's lives being put at risk to protect terms and conditions.
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.[/p][/quote]You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.[/p][/quote]I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level. Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face. My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.[/p][/quote]I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people.[/p][/quote]I think you hit the nail on the head in the last sentence, Woodsedge. People in the private sector are suffering far worse deprivations than in the public sector, but nobody is there to stand up for them and no government is interested in measures that protect them. Those that have been introduced (minimum wage) are designed to subsidise business not help individuals. Personally i think the government needs to nationalise all pension funds and then pay everybody the same (which would be higher than minimum wage) but it won't happen. In the case of the Fire Service, I do agree with their cause, but if somebody in Dorset dies as a consequence, I hold the strikers entirely responsible. It is not the government that has locked the doors and gone home. Do i have an alternative approach? No. Maybe this is what it has now come to - people's lives being put at risk to protect terms and conditions. JamesYoung

12:44pm Tue 31 Dec 13

JamesYoung says...

JamesYoung wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Jenny Barnes wrote:
Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.
Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.
Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't.
Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate.
Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust.
In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates.
It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.
You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.
I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level.
Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face.
My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.
I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people.
I think you hit the nail on the head in the last sentence, Woodsedge. People in the private sector are suffering far worse deprivations than in the public sector, but nobody is there to stand up for them and no government is interested in measures that protect them. Those that have been introduced (minimum wage) are designed to subsidise business not help individuals. Personally i think the government needs to nationalise all pension funds and then pay everybody the same (which would be higher than minimum wage) but it won't happen.
In the case of the Fire Service, I do agree with their cause, but if somebody in Dorset dies as a consequence, I hold the strikers entirely responsible. It is not the government that has locked the doors and gone home.
Do i have an alternative approach? No. Maybe this is what it has now come to - people's lives being put at risk to protect terms and conditions.
Correction: "higher than current state pension".
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jenny Barnes[/bold] wrote: Sack em all. Plenty of people out there who would like a decent job.[/p][/quote]Have you applied for a job in the fire service then? be funny if your house was on fire and a fire engine turned up with old age unfit personel on it. The fire service may be a good number sometimes but i think that changes when they get dead kids out of fires or car crashes. Did you see how quick they got to the show in London when the roof came down? To be in the fire service you need to be fit and well ,trained for the unexpected a good pay and pension. This crap goverment values no one r soles.[/p][/quote]Sustainability is the critical issue in the economics of modern life. What is sustainable and what isn't. Attending possible fires where children have died or appalling car crashes, sad and distressing as they may be, does not entitle a firefighter to the same wages and pension as a doctor. It's as simple as that. In my opinion, being a doctor does not entitle public employees to such a vastly inflated wage, but that's another debate. Being a firefighter is something that many people can do. You don't need a degree or very rare aptitude, you just need to be fairly fit and fairly intelligent. They are all great people I'm sure, and I'm glad when they attend an emergency, but that does not entitle them to disrupt public life using what is for all purposes an abuse of public trust. In my opinion the service has shot itself in the foot. Creating artificially good wage and pension rights has meant that the flow of new blood into the service has all but stopped, and jobs often go to those lucky enough to have been employed for the longest - not the best candidates. It's time for the public sector to trim the fat, and quite frankly they have been doing nothing but **** on about it since 2009. Shut up and get on with the job, and suffer the recession just like everyone else. You are not a special case - sorry.[/p][/quote]You are right in that sustainability is crucial and so is having a fully motivated, experienced and well trained emergency services. I find your comments regarding the particular skill set required to be a modern fire fighter belittling and ignorant. I would assume that in your world the viability of someone's worth is decided by academia i.e. a "degree". Fire fighters have an array of skills and knowledge thst are used on a weekly/daily basis to protect the public. Obviously they do not attend possible life saving events every day of the week but they train and keep their skill set up to date for the times when those skills are required. I am not against a review of the remuneration package offered to future employees, but I am certainly against a government prepared to renege on the contracts of employment of existing fire fighters. As for creating "artificially good wages", is a fire fighters salary of 28k pa a high wage when the ONS state the average UK salary stands at £26.500? Do you not think that citizens in the public sector are not suffering along with those in the private sector! Do they have a get out of jail card so that the recession does not affect them? It would appear that you are just another Daily Mail reader churning out the same old anti public sector sound bites instead of putting the blame at the feet of those that are really responsible.[/p][/quote]I can assure you I'm am no daily mail reader - and the fact that you think I am is very frightening. It illustrates the fact that you think dissatisfaction with the public sector is something only the ( lets be honest right wing ) middle class are feeling. I can most assuredly promise you that is not the case. You need to get out on the street and judge the feeling at a ground level. Yes I do think the public sector has a get of jail free card. It's called a promise by the public to pay their wages irrespective of what happens. Something each person in this country, struggling on a wage from working in a bar, or stacking supermarket shelves does not have. Striking whilst they provide a tax stream that pays those striking Firemen is a slap in the face. My sympathies to the new entrants to the public sector, usually low paid, without redundancy protection, any kind of pension plan. They face similar conditions to the rest of us. But I'm afraid they form a minority.[/p][/quote]I was not going to respond but there are so many inaccuracies in your post that I have to. I can assure you that through my work I meet both the left and right side of the political stream on the "street". The vast majority of those individuals understand that those in the public sector are no different to themselves and suffering the recession equally. It is true that the tax system pays the wages of the public sector, who, the same as those in the private sector, reinvest their wages back into the private sector. Are your views the same on government contracts that are now in the private sector yet are still funded by the tax payer? You know even the public sector worker needs electricity, gas, food, fuel etc. I would remind you that most public sector workers have had either negative pay rises or pay rises way below inflation (just like the private sector). Please do not worry about your tax paying fire fighters whilst on strike, as when taking part in lawful industrial action you are not paid nor do you accrue pension contributions. Why do you sympathise with new entrants into the public sector on low pay, inferior redundancy terms and inferior pension provision, is this not the basis of your dissatisfaction with the public sector? It is sad that you adopt a position of being satisfied with a race to the bottom regarding contracts of employment and will only be happy when everyone is at the bottom instead of aspiring to comparable terms and conditions of employment for all working people.[/p][/quote]I think you hit the nail on the head in the last sentence, Woodsedge. People in the private sector are suffering far worse deprivations than in the public sector, but nobody is there to stand up for them and no government is interested in measures that protect them. Those that have been introduced (minimum wage) are designed to subsidise business not help individuals. Personally i think the government needs to nationalise all pension funds and then pay everybody the same (which would be higher than minimum wage) but it won't happen. In the case of the Fire Service, I do agree with their cause, but if somebody in Dorset dies as a consequence, I hold the strikers entirely responsible. It is not the government that has locked the doors and gone home. Do i have an alternative approach? No. Maybe this is what it has now come to - people's lives being put at risk to protect terms and conditions.[/p][/quote]Correction: "higher than current state pension". JamesYoung

4:26pm Tue 31 Dec 13

westbaywonder says...

If a citizen voted for the cameron clan,then this is what he/she must be prepared to deal with, and citizens,i dont think you have seen anything yet.
If a citizen voted for the cameron clan,then this is what he/she must be prepared to deal with, and citizens,i dont think you have seen anything yet. westbaywonder

5:10pm Tue 31 Dec 13

radiator says...

I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and
I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and radiator

5:24pm Tue 31 Dec 13

radiator says...

I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen.
Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.
I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen. Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not. radiator

5:50pm Tue 31 Dec 13

westbaywonder says...

radiator wrote:
I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen.
Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.
Careful there Radiator,
Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man.

I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types .

Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton .
[quote][p][bold]radiator[/bold] wrote: I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen. Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.[/p][/quote]Careful there Radiator, Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man. I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types . Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton . westbaywonder

4:46pm Thu 2 Jan 14

JamesYoung says...

westbaywonder wrote:
radiator wrote:
I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen.
Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.
Careful there Radiator,
Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man.

I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types .

Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton .
Nope, nobody likes firemen.
Until their house catches fire with their infant asleep in the bedroom.
[quote][p][bold]westbaywonder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radiator[/bold] wrote: I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen. Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.[/p][/quote]Careful there Radiator, Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man. I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types . Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton .[/p][/quote]Nope, nobody likes firemen. Until their house catches fire with their infant asleep in the bedroom. JamesYoung

7:06pm Thu 2 Jan 14

westbaywonder says...

JamesYoung wrote:
westbaywonder wrote:
radiator wrote:
I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen.
Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.
Careful there Radiator,
Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man.

I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types .

Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton .
Nope, nobody likes firemen.
Until their house catches fire with their infant asleep in the bedroom.
Clever boy James,
For your information i have no infants and my house is very unlikely to catch fire as i have a housekeeper on 24hr duty .

Surrey for living and Weymouth for business.

Thanks for your concern dear chap!
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]westbaywonder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radiator[/bold] wrote: I know perhaps they signed up for certain conditions and pay, but times have changed and everyone has to work a little longer not just firemen. Dont forget people in the private sector have hazardous jobs you know ie farmers, fishermen.sewer workers,construction workers, many of which are self employed and only get any pension that they pay into.Lets not forget that certain firefighters let a man drown in three feet of water last year, what sort of person can do that ?orders or not.[/p][/quote]Careful there Radiator, Some troll was on here yesterday throwing the big word libel around and crying to the paper man. I have no problem with your comments at all but as usual the PC types are trying to silence the free-speach types . Dont like firemen anyway, too loud and full of themselves,ever since they were on Trumpton .[/p][/quote]Nope, nobody likes firemen. Until their house catches fire with their infant asleep in the bedroom.[/p][/quote]Clever boy James, For your information i have no infants and my house is very unlikely to catch fire as i have a housekeeper on 24hr duty . Surrey for living and Weymouth for business. Thanks for your concern dear chap! westbaywonder

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree