UPDATE WITH VIDEO: Weymouth and Portland has its first UKIP councillor and Labour becomes largest party

Weymouth and Portland has its first ever UKIP councillor and Labour are the largest party

Francis Drake- UKIP

Weymouth and Portland has its first ever UKIP councillor and Labour are the largest party

Brian Heatley shakes hands with Cory Russell

Oz Kanji and Gareth Rockingham

Penelope McCartney

First published in News
Last updated

WEYMOUTH and Portland has its first UKIP councillor after a local election that saw Labour become the largest party.

Although Weymouth and Portland Borough Council is still a hung council, with no party taking overall control, Labour now have 15 seats, while the Conservatives have 11, Liberal Democrats have 7, Independents 2 and UKIP 1.

Click here to see a picture gallery from the count.

Labour gained two seats from the Conservatives and one from an Independent.

Francis Drake became the first ever UKIP borough councillor in Melcombe Regis - borough mayor and Liberal Democrat councillor Ray Banham was pushed into fourth place behind the Conservative and Labour candidates.

A spokesman for the borough council said: “Mr Banham will remain as borough mayor until the official handover to incoming mayor Kate Wheller at the mayor-making ceremony next Thursday.”

Voters went to the polls on Thursday to cast their votes in both the local and European elections.

A third of the council seats were up for grabs and six long-standing councillors stood down, they were: Conservatives Kevin Hodder, Dominic Lonsdale, Ian James, Ian Munro-Price and Robert Dunster and Independent candidate Geoff Petherick.

Council staff were up verifying the count until 12.30am after polls closed on Thursday evening and they were back in at 9.30am for the official count.

Overall the turnout was 36.8 percent across the borough, with the highest turn out in Preston at 55.46 percent and the lowest turnout in Melcombe Regis at 27.54 percent.

The council could now see a new chairman of the management committee as Labour have the largest number of councillors. The new members of the committees and head of management committee will be decided at the June meeting.

Labour gained two seats from Conservatives and one from an Independent. Speaking about the new council make-up, councillor Sandra West said she was absolutely delighted.

She said: "We want to take the council forward now and work for the people of the borough."

Ray Nowak said they would be working for people across the whole of the borough to 'improve the quality of life.'

Conservative councillor Ian Bruce said they were expecting with six seats up for grabs that they could have lost five to the Labour party.

He added: "The usual horse trading will go on but generally all the groups will work out a solution that means we can run the council for the benefit of all our electors."

...................................................................................................................................................

MAYOR LOSES SEAT TO UKIP.

IN the biggest change of the election, Mayor Ray Banham lost his Melcombe Regis seat to UKIP's Francis George Drake.

Mr Drake thanked everyone that had voted for him and his wife for all her support.

Speaking to the Echo Mr Drake said he was 'over the moon' to have won. He said: “I am very pleased.”

He added: “I hope we will be able to do something for the town, the area and Melcombe Regis.”

Mr Drake said he would like to see business rates come down and added: “We need to get the empty shops full and get more people into the town.”

The results of the European elections will be announced on Sunday evening.

Mr Drake said: “It's going to be very interesting to see how the European elections go.”

Mayor Ray Banham will continue in the role until he hands over to mayor-elect Kate Wheller next Thursday.

He said: “I'm gutted, I'm shocked.”

He added: “I have done my best for Melcombe Regis and done my best for 14 years.”

....................................................................................................................................................

SIX new faces will be joining the new-look borough council – including some younger people.

Labour candidate Craig Martin won Wyke Regis by 22 votes.

Mr Martin, 32, lives in Wyke with his wife Megan and their four-year-old daughter, Evie. He has worked for a local school for more than 10 years and recently became involved with the trade union Unison.

He said: “I’m very pleased with the result.”

Gareth Rockingham took the Westham East seat for Labour, another gain from the Conservatives after Ian James stood down.

Mr Rockingham, 26, grew up in Westham, where he still lives. He did his A-Levels at Budmouth College and went on to study at university in Southampton. He returned to Weymouth after his studies and now works for a retailer in the town centre.

He said: “I’m so pleased.”

Penny McCartney became the new Labour councillor for Tophill West, winning the seat from the Conservatives. It was previously occupied by Ian Munro-Price.

Mrs McCartney, 44, has lived on Portland with her husband for many years. She has recently been seconded to work with the probation service in a role working on education, employment and training.

She said: “It’s a great day for Portland."

Kevin Brookes held Upwey and Broadwey for the Conservatives after Robbie Dunster stood down. It is the third time he has served on the borough council.

Mr Brookes, 61, is the co-owner of MK Models in Weymouth and is a part-time bus driver for First. He is married to Anne and has two grown up children.

The Conservatives also kept Weymouth West after Dominic Lonsdale stood down. Claudia Webb held the seat for the Tories in the narrowest victory of the day – a majority of just five votes over closest rivals Labour.

Miss Webb, 30, a human resources administrator at Universal Engineering, was at work when the result was announced. She follows in the footsteps of her father, Christopher, who served as a councillor.

Conservative Cory Russell held on to Wey Valley after Kevin Hodder stood down and said he was ‘elated’ to have won.

He added: “The main thing is we have to work together.”

Mr Russell, 26, is an IT Application Support Officer for Dorset County Council. He graduated with a politics degree from the University of Portsmouth.

....................................................................................................................................................

PURBECK District Council now has no party with an overall majority after last night's elections.

Eight of the council's seats were up for election and the Conservatives lost their grip on the authority, which is now in no overall control.

The Tories now hold 12 of 24 seats in the chamber, with the Lib Dems on 11 and one Independent.

That man is Nigel Dragon, who now holds the balance of power.

In Lytchett Matravers, which was the only seat to change hands, just 28 votes split the Tories and Lib Dems.

The success of the Lib Dem candidate, Martyn Colvey, who gained the seat at the expense of Tory Peter Webb, is being put down to UKIP polling 248 votes in the ward.

None of the other seven seats that were up for election changed hands.

All of those who won a seat will have to fight again next year because of boundary changes.

Comments (143)

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3:48pm Fri 23 May 14

cosmick says...

Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
Well done UKIP the start of things to come. cosmick
  • Score: -14

3:51pm Fri 23 May 14

Schrodinger's Cat says...

Some one will need to teach our new UKIP councillor a few basics about local government. Councils don't set the business rates - the government in London do
Some one will need to teach our new UKIP councillor a few basics about local government. Councils don't set the business rates - the government in London do Schrodinger's Cat
  • Score: 61

4:44pm Fri 23 May 14

shy talk says...

Schrodinger's Cat wrote:
Some one will need to teach our new UKIP councillor a few basics about local government. Councils don't set the business rates - the government in London do
Mr Drake said he would like to see business rates come down and added: “We need to get the empty shops full and get more people into the town.”

Correct central government set the business rate. To be fair Mr Drake said he would like to see them reduced not that he would reduce them.

The good news the government announced in the Autumn Statement on 5 December 2013 that it would provide a 50% business rates discount for 18 months for businesses moving into previously empty retail premises between 1 April 2014 and 31 March 2016.
[quote][p][bold]Schrodinger's Cat[/bold] wrote: Some one will need to teach our new UKIP councillor a few basics about local government. Councils don't set the business rates - the government in London do[/p][/quote]Mr Drake said he would like to see business rates come down and added: “We need to get the empty shops full and get more people into the town.” Correct central government set the business rate. To be fair Mr Drake said he would like to see them reduced not that he would reduce them. The good news the government announced in the Autumn Statement on 5 December 2013 that it would provide a 50% business rates discount for 18 months for businesses moving into previously empty retail premises between 1 April 2014 and 31 March 2016. shy talk
  • Score: 57

5:01pm Fri 23 May 14

More Morals Please says...

A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened. More Morals Please
  • Score: 37

5:35pm Fri 23 May 14

cosmick says...

More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Democracy. Thats how it works
[quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Democracy. Thats how it works cosmick
  • Score: -25

5:50pm Fri 23 May 14

Not_A_Moronic_Thug says...

More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
[quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now Not_A_Moronic_Thug
  • Score: -39

6:01pm Fri 23 May 14

Bollard says...

Not_A_Moronic_Thug wrote:
More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area!
[quote][p][bold]Not_A_Moronic_Thug[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now[/p][/quote]I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area! Bollard
  • Score: 48

6:21pm Fri 23 May 14

monkeydog says...

More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Agreed, but now he's there let's see what he does.
[quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Agreed, but now he's there let's see what he does. monkeydog
  • Score: 44

6:26pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here. cj07589
  • Score: -36

6:27pm Fri 23 May 14

Top Gear says...

Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.
Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round. Top Gear
  • Score: -29

6:31pm Fri 23 May 14

breamoreboy says...

Top Gear wrote:
Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.
Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator.
[quote][p][bold]Top Gear[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.[/p][/quote]Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator. breamoreboy
  • Score: 37

6:33pm Fri 23 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
A wonderful book, I just hope reality doesn't turn out like that. Only time will tell.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]A wonderful book, I just hope reality doesn't turn out like that. Only time will tell. breamoreboy
  • Score: 39

6:41pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

cosmick wrote:
More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Democracy. Thats how it works
Evident from the aforementioned. Liberal fascists don't like others having democracy sadly they prefer to dictate to others.
I'm actually ashamed 'moral-less et al' are so self righteous, bigoted and contemptuous in their attitude to the democratic process, the very corner stone of civilised society. Speaks thousands infact, It's quite frankly embarrassing to have the cheek the show themselves up for the intolerant so-and-so'so they really are.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Democracy. Thats how it works[/p][/quote]Evident from the aforementioned. Liberal fascists don't like others having democracy sadly they prefer to dictate to others. I'm actually ashamed 'moral-less et al' are so self righteous, bigoted and contemptuous in their attitude to the democratic process, the very corner stone of civilised society. Speaks thousands infact, It's quite frankly embarrassing to have the cheek the show themselves up for the intolerant so-and-so'so they really are. cj07589
  • Score: -30

7:07pm Fri 23 May 14

MrTomSmith says...

Going to save the Video for when there is nothing on TV ................
Going to save the Video for when there is nothing on TV ................ MrTomSmith
  • Score: 6

7:44pm Fri 23 May 14

ronfogg says...

Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P. ronfogg
  • Score: -14

7:55pm Fri 23 May 14

bedpans says...

Maybe Bnham will now see what people thought of his continuous rants about how good the Olympics were and what a wonderful legacy it left. Coupled with this and his continued waxing lyrical about our laser light no wonder people wanted rid. He should have woken up to the fact long ago that no one else shared his views. Confined to the annals of history because he didn't listen
FRED
Maybe Bnham will now see what people thought of his continuous rants about how good the Olympics were and what a wonderful legacy it left. Coupled with this and his continued waxing lyrical about our laser light no wonder people wanted rid. He should have woken up to the fact long ago that no one else shared his views. Confined to the annals of history because he didn't listen FRED bedpans
  • Score: 15

7:57pm Fri 23 May 14

JamesYoung says...

breamoreboy wrote:
Top Gear wrote:
Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.
Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator.
I have to say, i didn't vote for them, but i don't understand why people feel the need to twist UKIPs message.
We want to control immigration.
We want to exit from political union with the EU and instead trade freely with them.
What, exactly, is wrong with that?
If Farage has any sense, he'll purge the nutters from his party, as he should have done a long time ago. UKIP has more than its fair share, but it doesn't make it a racist party any more than Diane Abbott's grossly racist statements make Labour a party of racists or Harriet Harman's support for PIE makes it a party of paedophiles.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Top Gear[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.[/p][/quote]Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator.[/p][/quote]I have to say, i didn't vote for them, but i don't understand why people feel the need to twist UKIPs message. We want to control immigration. We want to exit from political union with the EU and instead trade freely with them. What, exactly, is wrong with that? If Farage has any sense, he'll purge the nutters from his party, as he should have done a long time ago. UKIP has more than its fair share, but it doesn't make it a racist party any more than Diane Abbott's grossly racist statements make Labour a party of racists or Harriet Harman's support for PIE makes it a party of paedophiles. JamesYoung
  • Score: 17

7:58pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting. cj07589
  • Score: -31

8:02pm Fri 23 May 14

westbaywonder says...

Wheres Woodsedge ? LOL
Wheres Woodsedge ? LOL westbaywonder
  • Score: 0

8:05pm Fri 23 May 14

JamesYoung says...

cj07589 wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries.
Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare.
UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy.
And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.[/p][/quote]I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries. Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare. UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy. And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters. JamesYoung
  • Score: 10

8:05pm Fri 23 May 14

Evidently Chickentown says...

Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions? Evidently Chickentown
  • Score: 30

8:06pm Fri 23 May 14

JamesYoung says...

westbaywonder wrote:
Wheres Woodsedge ? LOL
Probably spending some time with his wife, who was nastily insulted on here last night.
[quote][p][bold]westbaywonder[/bold] wrote: Wheres Woodsedge ? LOL[/p][/quote]Probably spending some time with his wife, who was nastily insulted on here last night. JamesYoung
  • Score: 6

8:15pm Fri 23 May 14

D.shoreditch says...

cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though. D.shoreditch
  • Score: -34

8:32pm Fri 23 May 14

Micke12 says...

So, how many of you actually voted this time. The turnout figures just show how much lack of interest people have in politics as it is so corrupted.

I think that year on year, people become so bored with the same people all the time and can not see that their vote could be the difference.

If anyone on here complains about anything that the council does, and they failed to vote, then they have no right to complain.

Hands up, all those that did not vote.

Nice to see that Uncle Tim lost the chance of mayor on Portland Town Council, but then what did he expect when demanding a 1000% increase on precept for Portland. That man lives in cloud cuckoo land.
So, how many of you actually voted this time. The turnout figures just show how much lack of interest people have in politics as it is so corrupted. I think that year on year, people become so bored with the same people all the time and can not see that their vote could be the difference. If anyone on here complains about anything that the council does, and they failed to vote, then they have no right to complain. Hands up, all those that did not vote. Nice to see that Uncle Tim lost the chance of mayor on Portland Town Council, but then what did he expect when demanding a 1000% increase on precept for Portland. That man lives in cloud cuckoo land. Micke12
  • Score: 11

8:44pm Fri 23 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition? breamoreboy
  • Score: 27

8:48pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries.
Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare.
UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy.
And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.
The BBC experts on vote2014 seem to suggest an interesting outcome in favour of the Cons if UKIP continue to dilute the labour vote. UKIP must dig in on the local politics scene and prove themselves to the communities they represent.
Good to see a healthy quantity of debate perhaps interests in politics is growing. Very done to all of the new elective appointments.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.[/p][/quote]I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries. Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare. UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy. And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.[/p][/quote]The BBC experts on vote2014 seem to suggest an interesting outcome in favour of the Cons if UKIP continue to dilute the labour vote. UKIP must dig in on the local politics scene and prove themselves to the communities they represent. Good to see a healthy quantity of debate perhaps interests in politics is growing. Very done to all of the new elective appointments. cj07589
  • Score: -25

8:54pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?[/p][/quote]No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively. cj07589
  • Score: -31

9:00pm Fri 23 May 14

cj07589 says...

D.shoreditch wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though.
It was weird seeing so many positive scores so quickly after the post was made. VoteBOT alert.......quite amusing and yes all good fun! Have a good one!
[quote][p][bold]D.shoreditch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though.[/p][/quote]It was weird seeing so many positive scores so quickly after the post was made. VoteBOT alert.......quite amusing and yes all good fun! Have a good one! cj07589
  • Score: -27

9:21pm Fri 23 May 14

woodyswife says...

Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much?

I got a few words for woody..
If you want nice, be nice.
The tactics are worn out.

To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals

He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage.

I will no longer be needed.
Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much? I got a few words for woody.. If you want nice, be nice. The tactics are worn out. To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage. I will no longer be needed. woodyswife
  • Score: -25

10:01pm Fri 23 May 14

Rocksalt says...

Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
[quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils. Rocksalt
  • Score: 30

10:01pm Fri 23 May 14

Rocksalt says...

Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
[quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils. Rocksalt
  • Score: 24

10:13pm Fri 23 May 14

woodyswife says...

Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk. woodyswife
  • Score: -24

10:32pm Fri 23 May 14

Evidently Chickentown says...

woodyswife wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.
[quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk.[/p][/quote]I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks. Evidently Chickentown
  • Score: 16

10:38pm Fri 23 May 14

woodyswife says...

Evidently Chickentown wrote:
woodyswife wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.
Them we will stand against you.
You obviously don't want peace and reason.


Shame that..
[quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk.[/p][/quote]I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.[/p][/quote]Them we will stand against you. You obviously don't want peace and reason. Shame that.. woodyswife
  • Score: -19

10:51pm Fri 23 May 14

Evidently Chickentown says...

woodyswife wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
woodyswife wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.
Them we will stand against you.
You obviously don't want peace and reason.


Shame that..
Fame, fame fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain.

All this media coverage. Hysteria about the Ukips and their 'astonishing success'. Yet the Ukips are down on around 6 per cent on last year. Some success that.
[quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk.[/p][/quote]I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.[/p][/quote]Them we will stand against you. You obviously don't want peace and reason. Shame that..[/p][/quote]Fame, fame fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain. All this media coverage. Hysteria about the Ukips and their 'astonishing success'. Yet the Ukips are down on around 6 per cent on last year. Some success that. Evidently Chickentown
  • Score: 13

10:56pm Fri 23 May 14

woodyswife says...

Best you check the bigger picture...not everyone is a beige battery of the regime, Some notice the bigger trend and believe in the old ways.
Best you check the bigger picture...not everyone is a beige battery of the regime, Some notice the bigger trend and believe in the old ways. woodyswife
  • Score: -9

11:48pm Fri 23 May 14

cosmick says...

ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes, agree with you ,we will do better next year .
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes, agree with you ,we will do better next year . cosmick
  • Score: -15

11:50pm Fri 23 May 14

cosmick says...

JamesYoung wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries.
Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare.
UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy.
And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.
And shutting the borders
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.[/p][/quote]I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries. Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare. UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy. And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.[/p][/quote]And shutting the borders cosmick
  • Score: -16

11:54pm Fri 23 May 14

MrTomSmith says...

Think I just lost 2 minutes of my life right there. WTF.
Think I just lost 2 minutes of my life right there. WTF. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 4

1:27am Sat 24 May 14

EtaoinShrdlu says...

Pretty pathetic turnout. So you get the council you deserve, elected by a few. Wow, a Labour candidate in Wyke ,no more touching the forelock to the squire now.
Pretty pathetic turnout. So you get the council you deserve, elected by a few. Wow, a Labour candidate in Wyke ,no more touching the forelock to the squire now. EtaoinShrdlu
  • Score: 6

7:33am Sat 24 May 14

ronfogg says...

cosmick wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries.
Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare.
UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy.
And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.
And shutting the borders
The "And shutting the borders" remark shows that UKIP will perhaps remain a one issue protest party. A policy based on saying that all our problems are because of foreigners has always been the most successful way of getting elected but after we've left the EU and things remain much the same, perhaps UKIP won't seem the panacea that it perhaps does at the moment.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.[/p][/quote]I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries. Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare. UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy. And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.[/p][/quote]And shutting the borders[/p][/quote]The "And shutting the borders" remark shows that UKIP will perhaps remain a one issue protest party. A policy based on saying that all our problems are because of foreigners has always been the most successful way of getting elected but after we've left the EU and things remain much the same, perhaps UKIP won't seem the panacea that it perhaps does at the moment. ronfogg
  • Score: 3

8:19am Sat 24 May 14

Rocksalt says...

woodyswife wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
Is your comment in response to my line about business rates ? If so, I am afraid I am entirely clear as to your point. You seem to be suggesting that I should approach the UKIP councillor to find out what they will do and/or their views on local issues. Call me old fashioned, but my expectation is that politicians say in advance what they will do. And that they talk about the things they can influence and for which the council is responsible.
[quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk.[/p][/quote]Is your comment in response to my line about business rates ? If so, I am afraid I am entirely clear as to your point. You seem to be suggesting that I should approach the UKIP councillor to find out what they will do and/or their views on local issues. Call me old fashioned, but my expectation is that politicians say in advance what they will do. And that they talk about the things they can influence and for which the council is responsible. Rocksalt
  • Score: 3

9:03am Sat 24 May 14

Jimmytheone says...

43 posts in a short space of time and an average of 28% turnout that about sums it up more grizzlers than can be bothered to put an x on a piece of paper which is FREE.
What has changed nothing.
Highest turnout Preston ? Mrs Bruce was not worried ? Wrong size roundabout,crosing in wrong place ,blame somebody else.
43 posts in a short space of time and an average of 28% turnout that about sums it up more grizzlers than can be bothered to put an x on a piece of paper which is FREE. What has changed nothing. Highest turnout Preston ? Mrs Bruce was not worried ? Wrong size roundabout,crosing in wrong place ,blame somebody else. Jimmytheone
  • Score: 1

9:19am Sat 24 May 14

Genghis says...

Micke12 wrote:
So, how many of you actually voted this time. The turnout figures just show how much lack of interest people have in politics as it is so corrupted.

I think that year on year, people become so bored with the same people all the time and can not see that their vote could be the difference.

If anyone on here complains about anything that the council does, and they failed to vote, then they have no right to complain.

Hands up, all those that did not vote.

Nice to see that Uncle Tim lost the chance of mayor on Portland Town Council, but then what did he expect when demanding a 1000% increase on precept for Portland. That man lives in cloud cuckoo land.
Again, the misconception that voting, all by it's self. confers the right to have an opinion. Anybody that pays their taxes has a right to comment on how they are spent regardless of whether they've voted or not.

And, yes, I did vote.
[quote][p][bold]Micke12[/bold] wrote: So, how many of you actually voted this time. The turnout figures just show how much lack of interest people have in politics as it is so corrupted. I think that year on year, people become so bored with the same people all the time and can not see that their vote could be the difference. If anyone on here complains about anything that the council does, and they failed to vote, then they have no right to complain. Hands up, all those that did not vote. Nice to see that Uncle Tim lost the chance of mayor on Portland Town Council, but then what did he expect when demanding a 1000% increase on precept for Portland. That man lives in cloud cuckoo land.[/p][/quote]Again, the misconception that voting, all by it's self. confers the right to have an opinion. Anybody that pays their taxes has a right to comment on how they are spent regardless of whether they've voted or not. And, yes, I did vote. Genghis
  • Score: 8

10:09am Sat 24 May 14

woodsedge says...

Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead.
Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead. woodsedge
  • Score: 4

10:19am Sat 24 May 14

D.shoreditch says...

cj07589 wrote:
D.shoreditch wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though.
It was weird seeing so many positive scores so quickly after the post was made. VoteBOT alert.......quite amusing and yes all good fun! Have a good one!
I can't help but notice how before the election certain individuals were very vocal in claiming UKIP supporters were messing with their comment votes, yet after election and UKIP did well, certain people have gone quiet and clearly UKIP supporters comments are clearly being messed with. makes you wonder?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]D.shoreditch[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]it would appear you have a guardian angel, despite the very best efforts of the extreme left and a clearly bias newspaper. it's fun watching it all though.[/p][/quote]It was weird seeing so many positive scores so quickly after the post was made. VoteBOT alert.......quite amusing and yes all good fun! Have a good one![/p][/quote]I can't help but notice how before the election certain individuals were very vocal in claiming UKIP supporters were messing with their comment votes, yet after election and UKIP did well, certain people have gone quiet and clearly UKIP supporters comments are clearly being messed with. makes you wonder? D.shoreditch
  • Score: -3

10:26am Sat 24 May 14

Richard Edwards says...

There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.
There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP. Richard Edwards
  • Score: 8

10:32am Sat 24 May 14

riverbend says...

Bollard wrote:
Not_A_Moronic_Thug wrote:
More Morals Please wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area!
I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions.
If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time.
You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly.
The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated.
[quote][p][bold]Bollard[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not_A_Moronic_Thug[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now[/p][/quote]I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area![/p][/quote]I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions. If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time. You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly. The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated. riverbend
  • Score: 0

10:43am Sat 24 May 14

Rocksalt says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.
Yes, and people wonder why voters get disillusioned. A party can have thousands of supporters in an area and still end up without a single voice on the council. In fairness, this applies to more than just the Green Party. I don't support them, but UKIP also suffer in this respect.
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.[/p][/quote]Yes, and people wonder why voters get disillusioned. A party can have thousands of supporters in an area and still end up without a single voice on the council. In fairness, this applies to more than just the Green Party. I don't support them, but UKIP also suffer in this respect. Rocksalt
  • Score: 4

10:44am Sat 24 May 14

Richard Edwards says...

This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.
This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP. Richard Edwards
  • Score: 7

10:45am Sat 24 May 14

Bert Fry says...

One councillor out of 36, polling less votes in the borough than the Greens. Why all the fuss about UKIP?
One councillor out of 36, polling less votes in the borough than the Greens. Why all the fuss about UKIP? Bert Fry
  • Score: 5

11:01am Sat 24 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.
To be fair, the Tories have lost national elections to Labour despite Labour polling far lower in terms of votes cast.
The Green Party's time will come, of that i have little doubt. But, like UKIP, it to has its nut jobs too and there will be no middle ground, since the most extreme greenies will be the ones vilifying anybody that questions their agenda. For me, the climate change science is not settled (as far as man's role in it is concerned) and it bothers me that the Green Party plan some fairly punitive policies on the assumption that it is. However, they are the only ones who seem to be genuinely thinking about social justice and i will be sorely tempted to vote for them in 2015.
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.[/p][/quote]To be fair, the Tories have lost national elections to Labour despite Labour polling far lower in terms of votes cast. The Green Party's time will come, of that i have little doubt. But, like UKIP, it to has its nut jobs too and there will be no middle ground, since the most extreme greenies will be the ones vilifying anybody that questions their agenda. For me, the climate change science is not settled (as far as man's role in it is concerned) and it bothers me that the Green Party plan some fairly punitive policies on the assumption that it is. However, they are the only ones who seem to be genuinely thinking about social justice and i will be sorely tempted to vote for them in 2015. JamesYoung
  • Score: 5

12:15pm Sat 24 May 14

woodsedge says...

woodyswife wrote:
Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much?

I got a few words for woody..
If you want nice, be nice.
The tactics are worn out.

To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals

He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage.

I will no longer be needed.
Got a few words for you Sigurd old chap, I am not going anywhere and your bullish and offensive insults will not make the slightest difference. All that your deranged ranting achieved was to expose you as a sad low life, who has nothing constructive to add to the debate. I will just relax and watch mr angry continually get banned and make himself look an even bigger fool than he already is old chap.
[quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much? I got a few words for woody.. If you want nice, be nice. The tactics are worn out. To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage. I will no longer be needed.[/p][/quote]Got a few words for you Sigurd old chap, I am not going anywhere and your bullish and offensive insults will not make the slightest difference. All that your deranged ranting achieved was to expose you as a sad low life, who has nothing constructive to add to the debate. I will just relax and watch mr angry continually get banned and make himself look an even bigger fool than he already is old chap. woodsedge
  • Score: 5

12:56pm Sat 24 May 14

Bert Fry says...

woodyswife wrote:
Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much?

I got a few words for woody..
If you want nice, be nice.
The tactics are worn out.

To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals

He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage.

I will no longer be needed.
If the Echo is such a deeply corrupt inferior rag why spend so much time on here. Surely, unshackled from the requirements of the opposite sex, you have better things to do?
[quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: Well done to UKIP and our BRAVE local representative, who I do not doubt will be receiving a load of nasty spite and nasty tricks from the left.. UKIP got in despite a barrage of some of the most vile, low-brow vitriol, defamation and nasty tactics from the desperate left wing extremists, backed up by a deeply corrupt inferior "rag" of a newspaper I have seen in years. Do you really fear freedom and democracy that much? I got a few words for woody.. If you want nice, be nice. The tactics are worn out. To the echo, you can't stop Sigurd. Not even with IP blocks or scripts on behalf of your liberals He's been here since the beginning. he will be here at the end. When you can administer PROPER equality in gender, politics and overall coverage. I will no longer be needed.[/p][/quote]If the Echo is such a deeply corrupt inferior rag why spend so much time on here. Surely, unshackled from the requirements of the opposite sex, you have better things to do? Bert Fry
  • Score: 7

2:08pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cj07589 wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.
It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?[/p][/quote]No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.[/p][/quote]It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign? breamoreboy
  • Score: 3

2:12pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

JamesYoung wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
Top Gear wrote:
Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.
Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator.
I have to say, i didn't vote for them, but i don't understand why people feel the need to twist UKIPs message.
We want to control immigration.
We want to exit from political union with the EU and instead trade freely with them.
What, exactly, is wrong with that?
If Farage has any sense, he'll purge the nutters from his party, as he should have done a long time ago. UKIP has more than its fair share, but it doesn't make it a racist party any more than Diane Abbott's grossly racist statements make Labour a party of racists or Harriet Harman's support for PIE makes it a party of paedophiles.
I must state that I like the way that you write. A word of caution, please wear a shield on your back as I'm certain that the PC brigade won't like it, probably why I do :-)
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Top Gear[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP...I normally vote Tory but voted UKIP this time round.[/p][/quote]Out of the frying pan, into the incinerator.[/p][/quote]I have to say, i didn't vote for them, but i don't understand why people feel the need to twist UKIPs message. We want to control immigration. We want to exit from political union with the EU and instead trade freely with them. What, exactly, is wrong with that? If Farage has any sense, he'll purge the nutters from his party, as he should have done a long time ago. UKIP has more than its fair share, but it doesn't make it a racist party any more than Diane Abbott's grossly racist statements make Labour a party of racists or Harriet Harman's support for PIE makes it a party of paedophiles.[/p][/quote]I must state that I like the way that you write. A word of caution, please wear a shield on your back as I'm certain that the PC brigade won't like it, probably why I do :-) breamoreboy
  • Score: 4

2:17pm Sat 24 May 14

3rdAccount says...

I've previously voted labour but this time voted UKIP. I will continue to do so now as I don't think the other major parties will ever have the balls to say and promise to do what most voters really want through fear of being labelled racist, homophobic and sexist. I want to vote for real people not robots.......

The major parties are fighting middle ground. None are offering to get really tough on immigration, law and order and benefit scroungers apart from UKIP, so that's where my vote goes for the foreseeable future.

I'm a realist and know it's extremely unlikely that UKIP will ever govern the Country, however if they can make the other parties sort themselves out so we have some substance to vote for again then have done their job in my opinion.
I've previously voted labour but this time voted UKIP. I will continue to do so now as I don't think the other major parties will ever have the balls to say and promise to do what most voters really want through fear of being labelled racist, homophobic and sexist. I want to vote for real people not robots....... The major parties are fighting middle ground. None are offering to get really tough on immigration, law and order and benefit scroungers apart from UKIP, so that's where my vote goes for the foreseeable future. I'm a realist and know it's extremely unlikely that UKIP will ever govern the Country, however if they can make the other parties sort themselves out so we have some substance to vote for again then have done their job in my opinion. 3rdAccount
  • Score: 1

2:21pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

riverbend wrote:
Bollard wrote:
Not_A_Moronic_Thug wrote:
More Morals Please wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area!
I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions.
If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time.
You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly.
The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated.
I was one of the people who got Diana Maddock elected as MP for Christchurch, one of the safest Conservative seats in the country. I was not aware of any organisation or orchestration, it just happened as the timing was right.
[quote][p][bold]riverbend[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bollard[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not_A_Moronic_Thug[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now[/p][/quote]I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area![/p][/quote]I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions. If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time. You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly. The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated.[/p][/quote]I was one of the people who got Diana Maddock elected as MP for Christchurch, one of the safest Conservative seats in the country. I was not aware of any organisation or orchestration, it just happened as the timing was right. breamoreboy
  • Score: 1

2:27pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.
Please, it's a representative system, not a democratic system. How often does the person that you've voted for to be your representative actually vote for something that you agree with? How can they when they are forced to follow the party whip or get thrown out? I'd like to see true independents at both local and national level, but sadly I can't see this happening.
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.[/p][/quote]Please, it's a representative system, not a democratic system. How often does the person that you've voted for to be your representative actually vote for something that you agree with? How can they when they are forced to follow the party whip or get thrown out? I'd like to see true independents at both local and national level, but sadly I can't see this happening. breamoreboy
  • Score: 5

2:31pm Sat 24 May 14

riverbend says...

breamoreboy wrote:
riverbend wrote:
Bollard wrote:
Not_A_Moronic_Thug wrote:
More Morals Please wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area!
I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions. If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time. You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly. The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated.
I was one of the people who got Diana Maddock elected as MP for Christchurch, one of the safest Conservative seats in the country. I was not aware of any organisation or orchestration, it just happened as the timing was right.
Sorry but there was a massive orchestration on that occasion, you were obviously oblivious to it and because of it that was your lucky 1% success. Let me know if it happens again.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]riverbend[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bollard[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not_A_Moronic_Thug[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now[/p][/quote]I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area![/p][/quote]I hope you didn't waste your vote by thinking you were voting tactically as that is such a classical electoral blunder of monumental proportions. If you put your cross in 'any box other than ukip' and expect the desired result you will be disappointed 99% of the time. You are simply spreading the opposition to ukip thinly. The whole point of an election is that you vote for who you want, not to vote against who you don't want. The exception is if there is an organised tactical vote and that has to be very carefully orchestrated.[/p][/quote]I was one of the people who got Diana Maddock elected as MP for Christchurch, one of the safest Conservative seats in the country. I was not aware of any organisation or orchestration, it just happened as the timing was right.[/p][/quote]Sorry but there was a massive orchestration on that occasion, you were obviously oblivious to it and because of it that was your lucky 1% success. Let me know if it happens again. riverbend
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

3rdAccount wrote:
I've previously voted labour but this time voted UKIP. I will continue to do so now as I don't think the other major parties will ever have the balls to say and promise to do what most voters really want through fear of being labelled racist, homophobic and sexist. I want to vote for real people not robots.......

The major parties are fighting middle ground. None are offering to get really tough on immigration, law and order and benefit scroungers apart from UKIP, so that's where my vote goes for the foreseeable future.

I'm a realist and know it's extremely unlikely that UKIP will ever govern the Country, however if they can make the other parties sort themselves out so we have some substance to vote for again then have done their job in my opinion.
Yeah flaming benefits scroungers, all of £72.40 per week for a single person 25 or over on JSA. Get on ESA and show that you're disabled when it comes to job hunting and your money soars to £101.15 per week. That's what you get having paid higher rate tax and NI for several years. Thank you HMG and DWP, not!!!
[quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: I've previously voted labour but this time voted UKIP. I will continue to do so now as I don't think the other major parties will ever have the balls to say and promise to do what most voters really want through fear of being labelled racist, homophobic and sexist. I want to vote for real people not robots....... The major parties are fighting middle ground. None are offering to get really tough on immigration, law and order and benefit scroungers apart from UKIP, so that's where my vote goes for the foreseeable future. I'm a realist and know it's extremely unlikely that UKIP will ever govern the Country, however if they can make the other parties sort themselves out so we have some substance to vote for again then have done their job in my opinion.[/p][/quote]Yeah flaming benefits scroungers, all of £72.40 per week for a single person 25 or over on JSA. Get on ESA and show that you're disabled when it comes to job hunting and your money soars to £101.15 per week. That's what you get having paid higher rate tax and NI for several years. Thank you HMG and DWP, not!!! breamoreboy
  • Score: -2

2:51pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.
It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?
And it hasn't ceased:

From today's newspapers:

Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors.

Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers".

In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world".

Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". "


The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate?

From same article:

"In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum."

He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet."

In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies.

Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas."

---------
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?[/p][/quote]No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.[/p][/quote]It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?[/p][/quote]And it hasn't ceased: From today's newspapers: Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors. Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers". In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world". Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". " The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate? From same article: "In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum." He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet." In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies. Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas." --------- navelgazer
  • Score: 4

6:14pm Sat 24 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger... Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: 3

7:23pm Sat 24 May 14

Natterjack two says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.
Thank you for pointing this out Richard, as the media (and some here) appear obsessed with UKIP. For the record, I am in Melcombe Regis, and voted -what a rare person I am!. (It is a secret / private vote so why should I tell you readers or anyone else!)

Re... "Breamoreboy" "true independents at both local and national level, but sadly I can't see this happening" I have some empathy with this. If we took national (and European) party politics completely out of local issues... so ONLY local people could stand on local issues... and ONLY local people could vote on local issues, I wonder would this result in better local government and services? I know I am dreaming the impossible!

Oh....and "Navelgazer" have you read the comments from "James Young" regarding UKIP "nutters"? He makes some very valuable points.

Hope I am not a "nutter".... Happy BH weekend all ! ..Can I go back to sleep now? When are the next election results due? ....2015? Oh no... tomorrow!
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.[/p][/quote]Thank you for pointing this out Richard, as the media (and some here) appear obsessed with UKIP. For the record, I am in Melcombe Regis, and voted -what a rare person I am!. (It is a secret / private vote so why should I tell you readers or anyone else!) Re... "Breamoreboy" "true independents at both local and national level, but sadly I can't see this happening" I have some empathy with this. If we took national (and European) party politics completely out of local issues... so ONLY local people could stand on local issues... and ONLY local people could vote on local issues, I wonder would this result in better local government and services? I know I am dreaming the impossible! Oh....and "Navelgazer" have you read the comments from "James Young" regarding UKIP "nutters"? He makes some very valuable points. Hope I am not a "nutter".... Happy BH weekend all ! ..Can I go back to sleep now? When are the next election results due? ....2015? Oh no... tomorrow! Natterjack two
  • Score: 1

7:24pm Sat 24 May 14

monkeydog says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Steady on. Why do you think it was mainly the elderly who voted for UKIP? Suzanne Evans, their spokesperson, said UKIP didn't appeal to the 'educated, cultured and young' so you need to spread the blamne a bit.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Steady on. Why do you think it was mainly the elderly who voted for UKIP? Suzanne Evans, their spokesperson, said UKIP didn't appeal to the 'educated, cultured and young' so you need to spread the blamne a bit. monkeydog
  • Score: 3

7:36pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
@parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms. navelgazer
  • Score: 5

8:20pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Bollard wrote:
Not_A_Moronic_Thug wrote:
More Morals Please wrote:
A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.
Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now
I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area!
What area was that then?
[quote][p][bold]Bollard[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not_A_Moronic_Thug[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]More Morals Please[/bold] wrote: A step in the wrong direction in supporting UKIP. We should be ashamed this has happened.[/p][/quote]Bet you wish you'd turned up to vote now[/p][/quote]I specifically went out and voted against UKIP when I found out there was a candidate in my area![/p][/quote]What area was that then? cosmick
  • Score: -2

8:27pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.? cosmick
  • Score: -3

8:30pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Evidently Chickentown wrote:
woodyswife wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
woodyswife wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand?

Go on, go meet them, talk.
I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.
Them we will stand against you.
You obviously don't want peace and reason.


Shame that..
Fame, fame fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain.

All this media coverage. Hysteria about the Ukips and their 'astonishing success'. Yet the Ukips are down on around 6 per cent on last year. Some success that.
Dont know who did your sums!
[quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodyswife[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]Have you phoned for counsel with this representative like a responsible citizen...or are you going to continue propaganda making in order to underhand? Go on, go meet them, talk.[/p][/quote]I'm going to continue propaganda making thanks.[/p][/quote]Them we will stand against you. You obviously don't want peace and reason. Shame that..[/p][/quote]Fame, fame fatal fame. It can play hideous tricks on the brain. All this media coverage. Hysteria about the Ukips and their 'astonishing success'. Yet the Ukips are down on around 6 per cent on last year. Some success that.[/p][/quote]Dont know who did your sums! cosmick
  • Score: -6

8:36pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

woodsedge wrote:
Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead.
I hope the LIBLABCONS stay on the same path as now, i dont want them changing to UKIP policies i want them out. UKIP needs them to support the E/U and all the bad rules that they give to the BRITISH!
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead.[/p][/quote]I hope the LIBLABCONS stay on the same path as now, i dont want them changing to UKIP policies i want them out. UKIP needs them to support the E/U and all the bad rules that they give to the BRITISH! cosmick
  • Score: -9

8:39pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.
Yes but they stood in more wards so the should get more votes, maths not you best subject?
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: There is no mention in the news story that there was a fifth party standing in the elections called the Green Party! They missed out on winning Weymouth West by just 38 votes. They got 45% of the vote in 2-way contest with Tories in Wey Valley, and more votes overall in the borough than UKIP.[/p][/quote]Yes but they stood in more wards so the should get more votes, maths not you best subject? cosmick
  • Score: -6

8:46pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Richard Edwards wrote:
This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.
Melcombe Regis, UKIP got about 25% of the vote with 5 candidates. Numbers can be made to read what you want if they are put in different ways, the truth is who won!
[quote][p][bold]Richard Edwards[/bold] wrote: This is more a comment about our democratic system than about UKIP. but it is worth mentioning that they won with the lowest turnout and the lowest winning share of the vote. Around one in four of the electorate turned out to vote in Melcombe Regis and, of those, less than one in four voted UKIP. So in other words, around one in sixteen of the electorate in Melcombe Regis voted UKIP.[/p][/quote]Melcombe Regis, UKIP got about 25% of the vote with 5 candidates. Numbers can be made to read what you want if they are put in different ways, the truth is who won! cosmick
  • Score: -4

8:49pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

navelgazer wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.
It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?
And it hasn't ceased:

From today's newspapers:

Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors.

Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers".

In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world".

Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". "


The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate?

From same article:

"In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum."

He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet."

In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies.

Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas."

---------
Bit late to slag us off theres an earthquake comming SUNDAY night.
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?[/p][/quote]No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.[/p][/quote]It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?[/p][/quote]And it hasn't ceased: From today's newspapers: Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors. Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers". In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world". Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". " The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate? From same article: "In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum." He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet." In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies. Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas." ---------[/p][/quote]Bit late to slag us off theres an earthquake comming SUNDAY night. cosmick
  • Score: -5

8:52pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Yes i can see that.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Yes i can see that. cosmick
  • Score: -2

8:57pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement? cosmick
  • Score: -1

9:37pm Sat 24 May 14

Rocksalt says...

cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?[/p][/quote]No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence. Rocksalt
  • Score: 3

9:55pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
It's not a 'knock ukip' statement from me.
I'm merely quoting a YouGov Poll.

Before you suggest that YouGov is unbalanced, note that YouGov also predicts a ukip lead in the European election.

I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?[/p][/quote]It's not a 'knock ukip' statement from me. I'm merely quoting a YouGov Poll. Before you suggest that YouGov is unbalanced, note that YouGov also predicts a ukip lead in the European election. I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you? navelgazer
  • Score: 2

9:57pm Sat 24 May 14

cosmick says...

Rocksalt wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.
Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?[/p][/quote]No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.[/p][/quote]Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in? cosmick
  • Score: 1

10:26pm Sat 24 May 14

Genghis says...

cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.
Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?
I would like to live in a place where the candidates stated what they would do, how they would do it, the pro's and cons of the policy and how it would be funded. I would also like the parties to actually answer the questions raised on their policies. A wish list is precisely the airy fairy politics that we've been getting for far too long. Promises for all, but the delivery of nothing.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?[/p][/quote]No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.[/p][/quote]Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?[/p][/quote]I would like to live in a place where the candidates stated what they would do, how they would do it, the pro's and cons of the policy and how it would be funded. I would also like the parties to actually answer the questions raised on their policies. A wish list is precisely the airy fairy politics that we've been getting for far too long. Promises for all, but the delivery of nothing. Genghis
  • Score: 1

10:30pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

cosmick wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead.
I hope the LIBLABCONS stay on the same path as now, i dont want them changing to UKIP policies i want them out. UKIP needs them to support the E/U and all the bad rules that they give to the BRITISH!
Ah, but the main parties will now engage and take more notice than hitherto.

That will be Farage's main achievement, but I suspect that as a consequence he will fare less well at the General Election.

Ukip are predicted to win 22% of he vote and 16 seats when this year's EU results are announced.
However, with the nature of ukip's support base and the first past the post system, current predictions are that ukip will not win any seats in the 2015 general election.
I'd suggest that If the major parties implement the lessons learned from the current election, it is probable that ukips popular support will wane.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: Regardless of my politics and personal views, the electorate have spoken and that is democracy in action. That doesn't mean that those of us that are sick to the back teeth of the incompetent mainstream parties and fearful of the extreme right policies of UKIP will fall silent. The debate will now move on and Labour, Lib Dem's and the Tories will have to take UKIP serious, and have policies that counteract the policies that are important to the electorate. Interesting times ahead.[/p][/quote]I hope the LIBLABCONS stay on the same path as now, i dont want them changing to UKIP policies i want them out. UKIP needs them to support the E/U and all the bad rules that they give to the BRITISH![/p][/quote]Ah, but the main parties will now engage and take more notice than hitherto. That will be Farage's main achievement, but I suspect that as a consequence he will fare less well at the General Election. Ukip are predicted to win 22% of he vote and 16 seats when this year's EU results are announced. However, with the nature of ukip's support base and the first past the post system, current predictions are that ukip will not win any seats in the 2015 general election. I'd suggest that If the major parties implement the lessons learned from the current election, it is probable that ukips popular support will wane. navelgazer
  • Score: -1

10:35pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.
Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?
I received a copy of the wish list.
Being a practical and pragmatic person, I wanted to know how the wish list could be funded, but could understand why that information was not provided.
That of course applies to all parties, but as ukip were promising change they should, that is the first step they should have taken.
Instead, I read nothing more than a number of aspirations.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?[/p][/quote]No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.[/p][/quote]Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?[/p][/quote]I received a copy of the wish list. Being a practical and pragmatic person, I wanted to know how the wish list could be funded, but could understand why that information was not provided. That of course applies to all parties, but as ukip were promising change they should, that is the first step they should have taken. Instead, I read nothing more than a number of aspirations. navelgazer
  • Score: 2

10:40pm Sat 24 May 14

navelgazer says...

**** the lack of a preview / edit facility.
".......as ukip were promising change **** xxxxx, that is the first step they should have taken.
**** the lack of a preview / edit facility. ".......as ukip were promising change **** xxxxx, that is the first step they should have taken. navelgazer
  • Score: 0

11:07pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

navelgazer "o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express."

monkeydog "...UKIP didn't appeal to the 'educated..."

Perhaps the above comments are linked by the Jasper Carrot joke "How can you tell Sun readers at the airport?". "They're the ones throwing breadcrumbs to the helicopters"

Further cosmick can't even spell (be)coming correctly, I really do hope that the people his crew are putting up as candidates are slightly better educated than he is.
navelgazer "o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express." monkeydog "...UKIP didn't appeal to the 'educated..." Perhaps the above comments are linked by the Jasper Carrot joke "How can you tell Sun readers at the airport?". "They're the ones throwing breadcrumbs to the helicopters" Further cosmick can't even spell (be)coming correctly, I really do hope that the people his crew are putting up as candidates are slightly better educated than he is. breamoreboy
  • Score: -5

11:13pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Well done UKIP the start of things to come.
I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.
I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?
No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.
It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?
And it hasn't ceased:

From today's newspapers:

Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors.

Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers".

In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world".

Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". "


The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate?

From same article:

"In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum."

He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet."

In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies.

Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas."

---------
Bit late to slag us off theres an earthquake comming SUNDAY night.
What earthquake, the predicted vote is already well known. Not that it matters as UKIP has already stated that its MEPs won't be taking part in the European Parliament. Which reminds me, as they won't be doing anything will they still be claiming their salaries and expenses or not?

p.s. please go back to school, it's "coming", not "comming".
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Well done UKIP the start of things to come.[/p][/quote]I see the anti-democracy liberal extremists are fiddling the score numbers again. Wondering if they had been banned from the daily mail website and found refuge here.[/p][/quote]I believe that your definition of "anti-democracy liberal extremist" is anybody who makes any form of comment against UKIP. If this is not the case, please may I have your definition?[/p][/quote]No, just those who veer to the extreme left, bad mouthing without evidence or justification. Hopefully you don't take issue with fairness in oppose to a campaign of smear and negatively.[/p][/quote]It strikes me that the "bad mouthing without evidence or justification" is the same as I've already said, namely anything that challenges UKIP. As for a "campaign of smear and negatively" surely the statements made by UKIP members regarding the atrocious weather being down to gay marriage, Lenny Henry going to a black country, Islam being evil, homosexuality being an "abomination before God" and comments about Roumanians prevent the need for any such campaign?[/p][/quote]And it hasn't ceased: From today's newspapers: Nigel Farage is dealing with fresh allegations of racism and homophobia in his party only days after the local and European elections as Ukip was forced to launch an investigation into comments made by one of its newly elected councillors. Dave Small, who was elected to Redditch borough council on Friday, faces being kicked out of the party for referring to gay people as "perverts" and African immigrants as "scroungers". In comments posted on Facebook, he also attacked BBC broadcaster Clare Balding and singer Elton John over their sexuality and referred to "our sworn enemies in the Muslim world". Stonewall's acting chief executive, Ruth Hunt, condemned the comments, saying Ukip would be "judged by the company they keep". " The question is, how was he even allowed to stand as a ukip candidate? From same article: "In a post on his Facebook account last June entitled Britain used to be for the British, Small wrote: "Our once great country has become the dust bin for all the world wide money grabbing scum." He added: "Why on earth is this useless Goverment pandering to Puffs? I refuse to call them gays, as what has gay to do with Perverts like Elton John and Clair Balding who get their jollies in such disgusting ways. to sum up, they should not allowed to be married, they should go back to the closet." In February 2013, he referred to gay people as "perverts" and expressed opposition to "poofs and dykes" being allowed to marry. And he predicted that "thousends mor scroungers" would soon arrive in the UK from Mali as a result of a range of coalition government policies. Small also complained in a November 2012 post that he was not allowed to use the term "****". And, in June that year, he wrote: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas." ---------[/p][/quote]Bit late to slag us off theres an earthquake comming SUNDAY night.[/p][/quote]What earthquake, the predicted vote is already well known. Not that it matters as UKIP has already stated that its MEPs won't be taking part in the European Parliament. Which reminds me, as they won't be doing anything will they still be claiming their salaries and expenses or not? p.s. please go back to school, it's "coming", not "comming". breamoreboy
  • Score: -1

11:20pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?[/p][/quote]Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted. breamoreboy
  • Score: 1

11:23pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

navelgazer "I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?". I remember the name but can't place which team he played for, was it City or United, could you please enlighten me, thanks?
navelgazer "I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?". I remember the name but can't place which team he played for, was it City or United, could you please enlighten me, thanks? breamoreboy
  • Score: -2

11:26pm Sat 24 May 14

breamoreboy says...

Genghis wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
Evidently Chickentown wrote:
Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union.

What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?
According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.
So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?
No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.
Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?
I would like to live in a place where the candidates stated what they would do, how they would do it, the pro's and cons of the policy and how it would be funded. I would also like the parties to actually answer the questions raised on their policies. A wish list is precisely the airy fairy politics that we've been getting for far too long. Promises for all, but the delivery of nothing.
Very well put, sums things up beautifully.
[quote][p][bold]Genghis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Evidently Chickentown[/bold] wrote: Oh great. One of those UKIPs on a local council. I do hope he realises he can't withdraw the borough from the European Union. What's he gonna do? Spend four years making speeches about Van Rompuy at planning meetings to do with a house extensions?[/p][/quote]According to his quote, he wants business rates to be reduced. My understanding is they aren't set by local councils.[/p][/quote]So if tat is correct are you saying its out of his control sit back and take it UKIP want to get the rates down to stop WEYMOUTH becomming a ghost town. Maybe support from you would be better, or do you just want to sit back and do nothing.?[/p][/quote]No, I just want to hear ( and wanted to hear before the election) what UKIP candidates would do about things over which they did have some direct influence.[/p][/quote]Did you not get a leaflet put in your letterbox with our wish list? What ward do you live in?[/p][/quote]I would like to live in a place where the candidates stated what they would do, how they would do it, the pro's and cons of the policy and how it would be funded. I would also like the parties to actually answer the questions raised on their policies. A wish list is precisely the airy fairy politics that we've been getting for far too long. Promises for all, but the delivery of nothing.[/p][/quote]Very well put, sums things up beautifully. breamoreboy
  • Score: 0

12:30am Sun 25 May 14

JamesYoung says...

cosmick wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Yes i can see that.
So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success?
It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young.
It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises.
It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing.
It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives.
Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Yes i can see that.[/p][/quote]So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success? It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young. It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises. It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing. It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives. Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties. JamesYoung
  • Score: 3

8:00am Sun 25 May 14

ThomasFairfax says...

It remains to be seen whether the "new" Council are any more successful in running Weymouth and Portland than the previous Council were.
It remains to be seen whether the "new" Council are any more successful in running Weymouth and Portland than the previous Council were. ThomasFairfax
  • Score: 0

8:22am Sun 25 May 14

navelgazer says...

breamoreboy wrote:
navelgazer "I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?". I remember the name but can't place which team he played for, was it City or United, could you please enlighten me, thanks?
You can fool all of the people some of the time... etc.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: navelgazer "I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?". I remember the name but can't place which team he played for, was it City or United, could you please enlighten me, thanks?[/p][/quote]You can fool all of the people some of the time... etc. navelgazer
  • Score: -1

8:31am Sun 25 May 14

navelgazer says...

breamoreboy wrote:
cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted.
Have you ever looked at the YouGov site?

Unfortunately some ukip supporters see bias everywhere. A latter-day McCarthyism. (hopefully you know what that means)
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?[/p][/quote]Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted.[/p][/quote]Have you ever looked at the YouGov site? Unfortunately some ukip supporters see bias everywhere. A latter-day McCarthyism. (hopefully you know what that means) navelgazer
  • Score: -1

8:32am Sun 25 May 14

cosmick says...

Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.
Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime. cosmick
  • Score: 7

8:37am Sun 25 May 14

navelgazer says...

@ breamorboy.
Apologies, I thought I was responding to Comick.
@ breamorboy. Apologies, I thought I was responding to Comick. navelgazer
  • Score: -2

8:58am Sun 25 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

JamesYoung wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Yes i can see that.
So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success?
It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young.
It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises.
It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing.
It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives.
Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties.
In the greater scheme of things, we are still far better off in Europe for numerous reasons unless you are retired or about to retire and especially if you are fairly wealthy.
It's the generation that are voting in ukip that are doing so to get us out of Europe, and instiling a sense of discontent in a generation that is benefiting from being part of that system.
They should be ashamed. Let alone the fact ukip openly support a racist agenda. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't have what you want. Manipulating others into getting it is reprehensible behaviour.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Yes i can see that.[/p][/quote]So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success? It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young. It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises. It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing. It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives. Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties.[/p][/quote]In the greater scheme of things, we are still far better off in Europe for numerous reasons unless you are retired or about to retire and especially if you are fairly wealthy. It's the generation that are voting in ukip that are doing so to get us out of Europe, and instiling a sense of discontent in a generation that is benefiting from being part of that system. They should be ashamed. Let alone the fact ukip openly support a racist agenda. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't have what you want. Manipulating others into getting it is reprehensible behaviour. Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: 0

10:44am Sun 25 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Yes i can see that.
So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success?
It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young.
It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises.
It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing.
It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives.
Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties.
In the greater scheme of things, we are still far better off in Europe for numerous reasons unless you are retired or about to retire and especially if you are fairly wealthy.
It's the generation that are voting in ukip that are doing so to get us out of Europe, and instiling a sense of discontent in a generation that is benefiting from being part of that system.
They should be ashamed. Let alone the fact ukip openly support a racist agenda. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't have what you want. Manipulating others into getting it is reprehensible behaviour.
I keep hearing this assertion that we are still better off in Europe. Can we be clear about what you mean by "getting out of Europe"?
I suspect very few people in UKIP want "out" of Europe. What they want is to pull away from the increasing bureaucracy and political union.
So, with that in mind, could you explain what the supposed benefits of this political union are? I contend that all of the countries of the EU could have had the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration without this massive money pit. I'd also point out that the lack of control over domestic economies has ruined some countries within Europe.
Lastly, some people within UKIP are undoubtedly racist. However, it is not racist to question uncontrolled immigration.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Yes i can see that.[/p][/quote]So you'd rather that the Tories or Labour had resounding success? It was Labour that robbed the pension funds of the young. It was Labour that meddled with banking regulation to allow banks to lend excessively, which directly resulted in house prices rises. It was the Tories who encouraged this profligacy, by schemes like FLS and HTB, which keep interest rates low to encourage people to buy, particularly buy to let landlords, while refusing to act on overseas investment in london housing. It was the Tories who cut housing benefit for under 25s, while handing out free bus passes to elderly people with Range Rovers parked on their drives. Seriously, every government over the last 2 decades has pandered to the desires of the baby boomer generation and those of us who are just below that age group, at the expense of people who are now in their teens and twenties.[/p][/quote]In the greater scheme of things, we are still far better off in Europe for numerous reasons unless you are retired or about to retire and especially if you are fairly wealthy. It's the generation that are voting in ukip that are doing so to get us out of Europe, and instiling a sense of discontent in a generation that is benefiting from being part of that system. They should be ashamed. Let alone the fact ukip openly support a racist agenda. Sometimes you have to accept that you can't have what you want. Manipulating others into getting it is reprehensible behaviour.[/p][/quote]I keep hearing this assertion that we are still better off in Europe. Can we be clear about what you mean by "getting out of Europe"? I suspect very few people in UKIP want "out" of Europe. What they want is to pull away from the increasing bureaucracy and political union. So, with that in mind, could you explain what the supposed benefits of this political union are? I contend that all of the countries of the EU could have had the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration without this massive money pit. I'd also point out that the lack of control over domestic economies has ruined some countries within Europe. Lastly, some people within UKIP are undoubtedly racist. However, it is not racist to question uncontrolled immigration. JamesYoung
  • Score: 4

12:05pm Sun 25 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves... Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: -1

12:23pm Sun 25 May 14

breamoreboy says...

navelgazer wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted.
Have you ever looked at the YouGov site?

Unfortunately some ukip supporters see bias everywhere. A latter-day McCarthyism. (hopefully you know what that means)
I've just done a YouGov survey on how the NHS should spend our money with respect to terminally ill patients. History has always been my favourite subject, so yes I do know Joseph McCarthy and for the record Abraham Lincoln also.
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?[/p][/quote]Well done, YouGov are renowned for their bias against UKIP, well spotted.[/p][/quote]Have you ever looked at the YouGov site? Unfortunately some ukip supporters see bias everywhere. A latter-day McCarthyism. (hopefully you know what that means)[/p][/quote]I've just done a YouGov survey on how the NHS should spend our money with respect to terminally ill patients. History has always been my favourite subject, so yes I do know Joseph McCarthy and for the record Abraham Lincoln also. breamoreboy
  • Score: 0

12:28pm Sun 25 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.
Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.[/p][/quote]Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party. breamoreboy
  • Score: 0

12:29pm Sun 25 May 14

breamoreboy says...

navelgazer wrote:
@ breamorboy.
Apologies, I thought I was responding to Comick.
Accepted, no damage done.
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @ breamorboy. Apologies, I thought I was responding to Comick.[/p][/quote]Accepted, no damage done. breamoreboy
  • Score: 0

7:28pm Sun 25 May 14

cosmick says...

breamoreboy wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.
Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.
ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.[/p][/quote]Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.[/p][/quote]ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK. cosmick
  • Score: -1

8:41pm Sun 25 May 14

navelgazer says...

cosmick wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.
Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.
ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK.
I suspect that you intended to write "WORD".

Thank you :)
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.[/p][/quote]Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.[/p][/quote]ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK.[/p][/quote]I suspect that you intended to write "WORD". Thank you :) navelgazer
  • Score: 1

10:01pm Sun 25 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
breamoreboy wrote:
cosmick wrote:
Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.
Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.
ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK.
I believe that you meant word, but what would one expect from a UKIP supporter, brains? Also please don't shout, where I come from it's considered rude. Ah, but this is the only way that UKIP supporters know how to get their racist, homophobic, nasty, unpleasant message across. As cosmick might put it "vote for up or we'll beat you us" :-)
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: Seems a spelling mistake is a major crime.[/p][/quote]Repeatedly spelling the same word incorrectly indicate a poorly educated person who's allowed to vote, but probably hasn't got the faintest idea what it's all about, hence constantly berating readers here about voting for an obnoxious political party.[/p][/quote]ONE WORK I CAN SPELL. *RICK.[/p][/quote]I believe that you meant word, but what would one expect from a UKIP supporter, brains? Also please don't shout, where I come from it's considered rude. Ah, but this is the only way that UKIP supporters know how to get their racist, homophobic, nasty, unpleasant message across. As cosmick might put it "vote for up or we'll beat you us" :-) breamoreboy
  • Score: 1

10:58pm Sun 25 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake. JamesYoung
  • Score: 3

9:56am Mon 26 May 14

3rdAccount says...

Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip 3rdAccount
  • Score: 4

11:32am Mon 26 May 14

livid99 says...

3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
[quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a **** livid99
  • Score: -1

5:57pm Mon 26 May 14

JamesYoung says...

livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
[quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons. JamesYoung
  • Score: -2

9:37pm Mon 26 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick? Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: 0

9:10am Tue 27 May 14

livid99 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ?

This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ? This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it. livid99
  • Score: -2

10:12am Tue 27 May 14

cj07589 says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude.
I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely.
As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues.
That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better.
Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...
Another angry bigoted broadcast then? I'm glad democracy is so painful for you. Calling pensioners names is really the pits and very disrespectful have you no shame??
I will no long reply to your nonsensical rants clearly you and park shuffle (who calls everybody racists and nazis) are a shining example of nastiness and intolerance in it's purist form.
You do not warrant nor deserve a decent reply since you clearly are not prepared to respect other people opinions, I seem to recall a certain German political movement which did exactly the same thing so we can add hypocrite to the list of nasty attributes you've shown so far. Goodbye and good riddance.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: A very sarcastic well done to all the old people that voted a ukip candidate in, and it is predominantly older people with a very selfish attitude. I'm sure all the young families like you once were, will really appreciate your 'protest' vote as their dreams of having even a fraction of the good fortune of a boom time economy you had when you started out in life seem more and more unlikely. As long as your ok everyone else be damned right. As long as you get your interest increase for savings. Houses at ten times average income. Lowest ever wage increases. Don't worry about the real issues. That will teach those Tories and labourites to mess with the pensions. How soon you have forgotten that people like Hitler made the promise of a better country by excluding foreigners. Is this what we can expect of people that should have the experience to know better. Respect your elders - disgusting. I have nothing but anger...[/p][/quote]Another angry bigoted broadcast then? I'm glad democracy is so painful for you. Calling pensioners names is really the pits and very disrespectful have you no shame?? I will no long reply to your nonsensical rants clearly you and park shuffle (who calls everybody racists and nazis) are a shining example of nastiness and intolerance in it's purist form. You do not warrant nor deserve a decent reply since you clearly are not prepared to respect other people opinions, I seem to recall a certain German political movement which did exactly the same thing so we can add hypocrite to the list of nasty attributes you've shown so far. Goodbye and good riddance. cj07589
  • Score: 3

10:34am Tue 27 May 14

cj07589 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv
id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves.
I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are)
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves. I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are) cj07589
  • Score: 2

10:50am Tue 27 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City. JamesYoung
  • Score: 2

10:52am Tue 27 May 14

JamesYoung says...

livid99 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ?

This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.
I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no.
[quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ? This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.[/p][/quote]I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no. JamesYoung
  • Score: 2

2:05pm Tue 27 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense? Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: -1

2:14pm Tue 27 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

navelgazer wrote:
cosmick wrote:
navelgazer wrote:
@parkstreetshuffle.
I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that:

o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express.

o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters.

The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.
If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?
It's not a 'knock ukip' statement from me.
I'm merely quoting a YouGov Poll.

Before you suggest that YouGov is unbalanced, note that YouGov also predicts a ukip lead in the European election.

I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?
These figures are about what I would expect. I see absolutely no need to see the other parties stats, what for?
Ukip have been used as a protest vote. Its happening across Europe, with very right wing parties gaining ground. Im absolutely gobsmacked about the French. Just goes to show how very conservative the actually are.
Generally we are led to believe that our elders are wiser and more trustworthy. Here is a very good example of the fact that no single attribute makes anyone any more or less wise or trustworthy. If the younger generation don't wake up they are going to find themselves in some very serious hot water.
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: @parkstreetshuffle. I don’t know the current stats, but a YouGov poll conducted 14 months ago found that: o UKIP voters are more likely than Tories to read one of right-of-centre tabloids, the Mail, Sun or Express. o Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young). o UKIP voters are less likely than voters generally, and far less likely than Conservative voters, to be above-average earners. 23% of UKIP supporters live in households whose total income exceeds £40,000, compared with 38% of Tories and 28% of Labour voters. The irony is we oldies are going to need low-paid immigrant-labour to staff the nursing homes and wipe our bottoms.[/p][/quote]If you gave detail of other partys you may give people the chance to decide if what you say is balanced. Or would this be another knock UKIP statement?[/p][/quote]It's not a 'knock ukip' statement from me. I'm merely quoting a YouGov Poll. Before you suggest that YouGov is unbalanced, note that YouGov also predicts a ukip lead in the European election. I do tend to agree with Abraham Lincoln though, don't you?[/p][/quote]These figures are about what I would expect. I see absolutely no need to see the other parties stats, what for? Ukip have been used as a protest vote. Its happening across Europe, with very right wing parties gaining ground. Im absolutely gobsmacked about the French. Just goes to show how very conservative the actually are. Generally we are led to believe that our elders are wiser and more trustworthy. Here is a very good example of the fact that no single attribute makes anyone any more or less wise or trustworthy. If the younger generation don't wake up they are going to find themselves in some very serious hot water. Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Tue 27 May 14

livid99 says...

cj07589 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv

id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves.
I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are)
Oh Please..... people who disagree with UKIP are all trolls ?
As for the rest of your post....don't feed the ego.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves. I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are)[/p][/quote]Oh Please..... people who disagree with UKIP are all trolls ? As for the rest of your post....don't feed the ego. livid99
  • Score: 0

3:18pm Tue 27 May 14

livid99 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ?

This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.
I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no.
Good job you and your opinions mean nothing then
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ? This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.[/p][/quote]I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no.[/p][/quote]Good job you and your opinions mean nothing then livid99
  • Score: -1

3:23pm Tue 27 May 14

livid99 says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense. livid99
  • Score: -1

5:21pm Tue 27 May 14

JamesYoung says...

livid99 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ?

This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.
I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no.
Good job you and your opinions mean nothing then
So to be clear, you believe that the electorate should vote for the future direction of the country without any comprehension of the issues at stake?
[quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Oh...so YOU, personally, don't think I should be allowed to vote because of a comment I made on a local newspaper comments section ? This may not have been written by Farage - I was not aware of the history of this letter - but it still sums up a lot of what the guy stands for, and therefore my comment still stands. If you think this means I should not be allowed to vote, then i'm sorry but you can take your sanctimonious opinion and shove it.[/p][/quote]I don't think anybody should be allowed to vote if they are too bloody lazy to make the most superficial attempt to judge fact from fiction, no.[/p][/quote]Good job you and your opinions mean nothing then[/p][/quote]So to be clear, you believe that the electorate should vote for the future direction of the country without any comprehension of the issues at stake? JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

5:23pm Tue 27 May 14

JamesYoung says...

livid99 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense.
Another rather silly comment that adds little to the debate.
[quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense.[/p][/quote]Another rather silly comment that adds little to the debate. JamesYoung
  • Score: 3

5:30pm Tue 27 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about. JamesYoung
  • Score: 3

7:20pm Tue 27 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians. Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Wed 28 May 14

JamesYoung says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-).
I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware).
Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany.
Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits).
As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe.
Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability.
So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front.
People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-). I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware). Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany. Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits). As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe. Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability. So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front. People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

2:42pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

livid99 wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
3rdAccount wrote:
Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP.....

Nigel Farage UKIP

This is what he said:

"I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living.

I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others.

I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can.

I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work!

I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit.

I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized,

And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority!

I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option.

I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to.

My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!!

I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!!

I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it.

I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country!

This is ENGLAND.....

We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country!

If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems.

I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one?

I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are.
And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good....

I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family!

I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think!

I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom

If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know....

We want our country back! My Country.....

I hope this offends all illegal aliens.

My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag.

At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down .

West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them.

What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough.

This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand.

I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country,

And for the British flag.

And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS !

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY !

This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration !

YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally:

1. Get a sponsor !
2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past!
3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do
4. Get a job !
5. Pay YOUR Taxes !
6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it !
7. Find a place to lay your head !

If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then
YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !

We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone.

WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! !

If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp !

Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!"

AMEN"

Nigel Farage ukip
That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****
Just so i understand....
Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway.
You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification.
This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage.
I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.
Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv


id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves.
I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are)
Oh Please..... people who disagree with UKIP are all trolls ?
As for the rest of your post....don't feed the ego.
Are they still brandishing their extreme right wing neo-Nazi rubbish, thought they might have realised by now that they don't fool anybody. But have the courage to challenge them and you're a troll. Still, very funny to see yet another of their thickos suspended last night after five days in office. 10% of elected UKIP bozos don't last a year. I can only assume that they just can't cope in the real world that most of us exist in. In their extremist world might is right and that's it.

Further, if that idiot Same Old Same Old Siggy once more refers to the Labour party or has the audacity to call me a socialist, I'll thcream and thcream 'till I'm thick I'm in the centre, it's the bit in the middle for the UKIP fanatics who don't know about these things, the part between the extreme left, on one side and UKIP and your pals from the BNP, NF and EDL on the other.
[quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]3rdAccount[/bold] wrote: Not sure if he did actually write this but thought I would post anyway as I think it sums up why people are now voting UKIP..... Nigel Farage UKIP This is what he said: "I am the Tory Party's Worst Nightmare. I am a White, Tax-Paying, God fearing English man. I am a hard working Brit and I work long hours to earn a living. I believe in God and the freedom of religion, But I don't push it on others. I believe in British products And buy them whenever I can. I believe the money I make belongs to me And not to some governmental functionary, To share with others who don't work! I think owning a home doesn't make you a capitalist; It makes you a smart Brit. I think being a minority does not make you noble or victimized, And does not entitle you to anything. Get over it. Join in with the majority! I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, You should do it in English. I believe there should be no other language option. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God When and where they want to. My heroes are fellow Brits like Freddy Flintoff And Winston Churchill And I know I've missed a few thousand!!!!! I don't hate the rich. What I hate is the way they always manage to avoid paying proper taxes. I don't pity the poor, I just hate the way they are always moaning that they are hard done by!! I know wrestling is fake And I don't waste my time watching or arguing about it. I believe if you don't like the way things are here, Go back to where you came from And change your own country! This is ENGLAND..... We like it the way it is and even more so the way it was So stop trying to change it to look like some other socialist country! If you were born or legally migrated here And don't like it... You are free to move To any Socialist country that will have you. I believe it is time to really clean house, Starting with the House of Commons, The seat of our biggest problems. I want to know where the "Do Gooders" get their money from, And why are they always part of the problem and not the solution? Can I get an AMEN on that one? I also think the cops have the right to pull you over if you're breaking the law, Regardless of what race, colour or creed you are. And, no, I don't mind having my face shown on my driving licence. I think it's good.... I dislike those people trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause. Get a job and support yourself and your family! I believe 'illegal' is illegal no matter what the lawyers think! I believe the Union Jack flag should be allowed to be flown Anywhere in the United Kingdom If this makes me a BAD Brit, Then yes, I'm a BAD Brit. If you are a BAD Brit too, Please forward this to everyone you know.... We want our country back! My Country..... I hope this offends all illegal aliens. My great, great grandfather watched as his friends died in the Boer War. My grandfather watched and bled as his friends died in World Wars 1&2. I watched as my friends died in Sierra Leone Bosnia, & Desert Storm. Our sons and daughters watched & bled as their friends Died in Afghanistan and Iraq. None of them died for the Afghanistan and Iraq Flag. Every Briton died for the British flag. At one high school, Foreign students raised a Middle East flag on a school flag pole. British students took it down. Guess who was expelled. The students who took it down . West London high school students were sent home, Because they wore T-shirts with the Union Jack flag printed on them. What is going on?? What idiots do we have in authority?? Enough is enough. This message needs to be viewed by every Brit; And every Briton needs to stand up for Britain . We've bent over to appease the Brit-haters long enough. I'm taking a stand. I'm standing up because of the millions Who died fighting in wars for this country, And for the British flag. And shame on anyone who tries to Make this a racist message. IT IS NOT ! Britons, stop giving away Your RIGHTS ! THIS IS OUR COUNTRY ! This statement DOES NOT mean I'm against immigration ! YOU ARE WELCOME HERE, IN MY COUNTRY, Welcome to come legally: 1. Get a sponsor ! 2. Learn the LANGUAGE, as immigrants have in the past! 3. Live by OUR rules ! Dress as we Britons Do 4. Get a job ! 5. Pay YOUR Taxes ! 6. No Social Security until you have earned it and paid for it ! 7. Find a place to lay your head ! If you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone, then YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM ! We've gone so far the other way. bent over backwards not to offend anyone. WAKE UP BRITAIN! ! ! If you do not Pass this on, may your fingers cramp ! Made in BRITAIN & **** PROUD OF IT!!!!!" AMEN" Nigel Farage ukip[/p][/quote]That sums up why I did not vote for Farage and his crew. What a ****[/p][/quote]Just so i understand.... Somebody posts something that he claims might, or might not, have been written by Nigel Farage, but decides to attribute it to him anyway. You decide that this sums up why you did not vote for Farage. Personally, i don't think you (or the other poster) should be allowed to vote, since an ability to sift fact from fiction should be a qualification. This particular quote has been attributed to several American democrat writers/authors (George Carlin, Ted Nugent, Denis Leary) and also to an Australian conservative MP, Bob Katter. What is very certain is that it was not penned by Farage. I often wonder why we continue to vote for corrupt politicians of every party. When i read your comments i realise why. Half of the electorate are morons.[/p][/quote]Hi James, I think parkstreetshufle/liv id99/Breamoreboy all fall very nicely into your last sentences apt description of half the electorate. Ive had enough of sub-human nasty vial rhetoric banded about by the aforementioned and have decided to let the trolls argue amongst themselves. I'd like to add that over the years, I have always valued your input on various debates, your reason and intelligent well articulated posts have been very refreshing and welcome. All the very best for now, good luck and please refrain from feeding the trolls (they know who they are)[/p][/quote]Oh Please..... people who disagree with UKIP are all trolls ? As for the rest of your post....don't feed the ego.[/p][/quote]Are they still brandishing their extreme right wing neo-Nazi rubbish, thought they might have realised by now that they don't fool anybody. But have the courage to challenge them and you're a troll. Still, very funny to see yet another of their thickos suspended last night after five days in office. 10% of elected UKIP bozos don't last a year. I can only assume that they just can't cope in the real world that most of us exist in. In their extremist world might is right and that's it. Further, if that idiot Same Old Same Old Siggy once more refers to the Labour party or has the audacity to call me a socialist, I'll thcream and thcream 'till I'm thick I'm in the centre, it's the bit in the middle for the UKIP fanatics who don't know about these things, the part between the extreme left, on one side and UKIP and your pals from the BNP, NF and EDL on the other. breamoreboy
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cosmick wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.
Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.
I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries.
Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare.
UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy.
And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.
And shutting the borders
Please close the borders after the extremists that we don't want have been thrown out. Mr and Mrs Farage to go first.
[quote][p][bold]cosmick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: Slightly surprised that UKIP only got 1 seat in W&P.[/p][/quote]Yes indeed but it will have a big impact on the next general election should be interesting.[/p][/quote]I actually doubt it. UKIP need to focus on far more than just their two main rallying cries. Fundamentally, working people in Britain worry about a few things - how to pay for a roof over their head, what they are going to do for work, who will look after them when they're old, and how their children will fare. UKIP needs to start thinking about some of those things; then, yes, it might be noteworthy. And as i've said before, that all starts with kicking out the nutters.[/p][/quote]And shutting the borders[/p][/quote]Please close the borders after the extremists that we don't want have been thrown out. Mr and Mrs Farage to go first. breamoreboy
  • Score: -1

2:56pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

sberth wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
livid99 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense.
Another rather silly comment that adds little to the debate.
You upset the left James...you enjoying the taste of abuse now?
Why do you insist on stating, incorrectly, that anybody who opposes UKIP is on the left? Have you heard of the bit in the middle, the centre?
[quote][p][bold]sberth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]livid99[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]The important thing is that he is 43 and works in "The City"...the sanctimonious comments don't have to make sense.[/p][/quote]Another rather silly comment that adds little to the debate.[/p][/quote]You upset the left James...you enjoying the taste of abuse now?[/p][/quote]Why do you insist on stating, incorrectly, that anybody who opposes UKIP is on the left? Have you heard of the bit in the middle, the centre? breamoreboy
  • Score: -1

2:57pm Wed 28 May 14

cj07589 says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well.
Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well. Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways. cj07589
  • Score: 2

3:04pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-).
I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware).
Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany.
Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits).
As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe.
Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability.
So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front.
People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year.
@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-). I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware). Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany. Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits). As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe. Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability. So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front. People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year.[/p][/quote]@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said. breamoreboy
  • Score: -2

4:32pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

cj07589 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well.
Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.
A member of which party stated that Lenny Henry should go to a black country? If that's not racist then what is, so please give your definition of racist?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well. Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.[/p][/quote]A member of which party stated that Lenny Henry should go to a black country? If that's not racist then what is, so please give your definition of racist? breamoreboy
  • Score: -2

7:34pm Wed 28 May 14

cj07589 says...

breamoreboy wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well.
Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.
A member of which party stated that Lenny Henry should go to a black country? If that's not racist then what is, so please give your definition of racist?
Your very own words clear for all to see, so don't preach your broken morals at the rest of the public thank you very much. We see you for exactly what you are.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well. Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.[/p][/quote]A member of which party stated that Lenny Henry should go to a black country? If that's not racist then what is, so please give your definition of racist?[/p][/quote]Your very own words clear for all to see, so don't preach your broken morals at the rest of the public thank you very much. We see you for exactly what you are. cj07589
  • Score: 0

7:36pm Wed 28 May 14

JamesYoung says...

breamoreboy wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-).
I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware).
Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany.
Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits).
As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe.
Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability.
So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front.
People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year.
@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said.
This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]Actually, i think it's you that is being a little doe eyed ideologically :-). I would agree, one state should be cheaper to run than a dozen, but that is not what is happening. The EU is a massively expensive bureaucracy that adds to, rather than takes away from, the total cost of "running Europe". The challenges of accountability are well known (from a financial standpoint, auditors won't sign accounts, but there are many, many other concerns as you are probably aware). Being out will be painful, but the idea that we cannot succeed outside of Europe is rubbish. Norway and Switzerland are the common examples but there is also the fact that our economy more naturally tracks the US than it does France or Germany. Your point about immigration is interesting and leads me to believe that you are probably working in a professional job. The experience at the unskilled end of the spectrum is different. Agreed, British people don't want to do some jobs, but this needs to be tackled because those British people are still an outgoing. Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on immigration in the areas that it can - and that means we are losing out on well qualified Indian immigrants so that the government can claim success, while low skilled people who contribute relatively little but who undoubtedly take British low skilled jobs (i know this personally as a builder friend employs Poles over Brits). As for being "all in", well, i'm astounded that people keep saying this, as they are clearly not aware of the facts of what would have happened in Britain had we been "all in" at the time of the financial crisis. In short: a very deep recession, probably a severe house price crash (good thing in my view!) and much higher unemployment. Why? Because the government would not have been able to do what it has done (quantitative easing). Savers would also have been worse off, because interest rates are lower in Europe. Now, if you believe the hype, the UK Is undergoing a recovery. Europe, however, is once more considering expanding its quantitative easing policy and cutting interest rates to zero. If interest rates are forced to rise (markets set them, not governments) then bank failures and Cyprus style bail ins are a probability. So, in summary, i'd be absolutely in favour of EU membership were it not for the fact that the project has gone too far. Denmark, Sweden, Germany, UK, Netherlands - yes, a union makes sense. Add France, and it makes slightly less sense. Add the Mediterranean countries and you come across massive disparities. Add Eastern European countries and you create a massive issue on the labour market front. People point to the US as an example of how such a union would work. What is generally overlooked is the massive amount of subsidies that cross state borders each year.[/p][/quote]@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said.[/p][/quote]This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables. JamesYoung
  • Score: -2

8:37pm Wed 28 May 14

breamoreboy says...

JamesYoung "This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables.".

It's in their hands. Labour managed it many years ago with Militant Tendency, I don't see why UKIP can't take similar action.
JamesYoung "This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables.". It's in their hands. Labour managed it many years ago with Militant Tendency, I don't see why UKIP can't take similar action. breamoreboy
  • Score: -1

11:19pm Wed 28 May 14

JamesYoung says...

breamoreboy wrote:
JamesYoung "This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables.".

It's in their hands. Labour managed it many years ago with Militant Tendency, I don't see why UKIP can't take similar action.
I completely agree. And as i've said on previous posts, if they (i) purged the nut jobs and (ii) developed some coherent domestic policies that do not centre around making their housing spokesman richer, then i'd probably have voted for them, since i think a debate on Europe is long overdue.
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: JamesYoung "This is UKIPs fundamental problem. I don't believe that the majority of people who voted UKIP are racist, but it really is time for a purge of the undesirables.". It's in their hands. Labour managed it many years ago with Militant Tendency, I don't see why UKIP can't take similar action.[/p][/quote]I completely agree. And as i've said on previous posts, if they (i) purged the nut jobs and (ii) developed some coherent domestic policies that do not centre around making their housing spokesman richer, then i'd probably have voted for them, since i think a debate on Europe is long overdue. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

7:40am Thu 29 May 14

ronfogg says...

BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?
BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time? ronfogg
  • Score: -1

8:33am Thu 29 May 14

ronfogg says...

"@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said."

Certainly much better than the usual stuff on here. However the effect of being in or out of the EU is being greatly exaggerated. Life would carry on much the same either way. I'll never vote UKIP (too right wing for me) but actually I'd probably vote in favour of us leaving the EU, without any expectation that things would improve.

The recent economic crisis is nothing to do with the EU, as can be seen by the fact that the crash started in the USA. Admittedly, some of the fringe Eurozone countries (eg Greece) have suffered disproportionally but it's interesting that the Euro has been considerably stronger than the Pound since the crunch and perhaps shows that the Euro isn't such a basket case as its often thought to be.

James Young seems very worried about house prices, an issue which has nothing to do with us being in or out of the EU, although it would have been worse had we been in the Euro - see Ireland for instance.

It's interesting that we've had figures released yesterday about the economic effect of Scotland leaving the UK. One side says it'll cost the Scots and the other says that they'll see a benefit. Probably the answer lies somewhere in between. Personally I'm in favour of Scotland leaving, mainly so I don't have to listen to Alex blaming everything on the English.

As with the issue of the UK leaving the EU it's more a cultural thing that an economic one.
"@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said." Certainly much better than the usual stuff on here. However the effect of being in or out of the EU is being greatly exaggerated. Life would carry on much the same either way. I'll never vote UKIP (too right wing for me) but actually I'd probably vote in favour of us leaving the EU, without any expectation that things would improve. The recent economic crisis is nothing to do with the EU, as can be seen by the fact that the crash started in the USA. Admittedly, some of the fringe Eurozone countries (eg Greece) have suffered disproportionally but it's interesting that the Euro has been considerably stronger than the Pound since the crunch and perhaps shows that the Euro isn't such a basket case as its often thought to be. James Young seems very worried about house prices, an issue which has nothing to do with us being in or out of the EU, although it would have been worse had we been in the Euro - see Ireland for instance. It's interesting that we've had figures released yesterday about the economic effect of Scotland leaving the UK. One side says it'll cost the Scots and the other says that they'll see a benefit. Probably the answer lies somewhere in between. Personally I'm in favour of Scotland leaving, mainly so I don't have to listen to Alex blaming everything on the English. As with the issue of the UK leaving the EU it's more a cultural thing that an economic one. ronfogg
  • Score: -1

12:36pm Thu 29 May 14

JamesYoung says...

ronfogg wrote:
"@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said."

Certainly much better than the usual stuff on here. However the effect of being in or out of the EU is being greatly exaggerated. Life would carry on much the same either way. I'll never vote UKIP (too right wing for me) but actually I'd probably vote in favour of us leaving the EU, without any expectation that things would improve.

The recent economic crisis is nothing to do with the EU, as can be seen by the fact that the crash started in the USA. Admittedly, some of the fringe Eurozone countries (eg Greece) have suffered disproportionally but it's interesting that the Euro has been considerably stronger than the Pound since the crunch and perhaps shows that the Euro isn't such a basket case as its often thought to be.

James Young seems very worried about house prices, an issue which has nothing to do with us being in or out of the EU, although it would have been worse had we been in the Euro - see Ireland for instance.

It's interesting that we've had figures released yesterday about the economic effect of Scotland leaving the UK. One side says it'll cost the Scots and the other says that they'll see a benefit. Probably the answer lies somewhere in between. Personally I'm in favour of Scotland leaving, mainly so I don't have to listen to Alex blaming everything on the English.

As with the issue of the UK leaving the EU it's more a cultural thing that an economic one.
Ron, I think you are correct in saying that the financial crisis began in the USA (and the UK, which, despite Brown's status as saviour of the banking system, also contributed to the crisis through loosening of financial regulation which led the US to follow suit). My point was really that an individual country within the EU no longer has the control over its own monetary and fiscal policies and thus cannot react in the way that the UK has been able to. The result is that much of Europe is stagnating and its widely believed that the ECB will start the presses again next month.
As for the value of the euro, there are two important things to consider. Firstly, Greek bonds had a value one day, and were junk the very next day. Secondly, the EU elites have made it plain that they are prepared to back the Euro using one of two strategies: taxpayer cash (predominantly from Germany) and bail-ins as seen in Cyprus. In short, i think the value of the Euro has more to do with the risk of default than economic growth.
That said, i consider the actions taken by the UK to have been criminal, in that the sole focus of Tory economic policy has been the continued underwriting of mortgage lending. The FLS scheme was supposedly to help businesses borrow, but 90%+ of the lending went to mortgage holders. So to say i am worried about house prices is correct - i am worried that we are in a massive bubble and the consequences will be very, very dire. I also think that they are imminent and will happen long before interest rates are put up. In my view, an Ireland style 50% house price crash is needed to save us from ourselves. The short term consequences will be dire for some, but it will return us to where we were in the 1990s, where owning a house was a reasonable aspiration for everybody. Had house prices increased in line with wage price growth, the 2 bed house i bought in 1993 would now be worth £74k, not £150k. Instead, we are fed the lie that population growth is the cause of our woes, which is utter rubbish. In Europe, our house to person ratio is actual fairly high, and the countries that have more houses than us are Ireland and Spain....which have both suffered crashes. House prices are simply a function of bank lending, putting us all into debt based on a lie.
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: "@JamesYoung and Parkstreetshufle thanks for the comments, I appreciate a good sprinkling of common sense. Please keep it up, far more interesting than some of the other things that have been said." Certainly much better than the usual stuff on here. However the effect of being in or out of the EU is being greatly exaggerated. Life would carry on much the same either way. I'll never vote UKIP (too right wing for me) but actually I'd probably vote in favour of us leaving the EU, without any expectation that things would improve. The recent economic crisis is nothing to do with the EU, as can be seen by the fact that the crash started in the USA. Admittedly, some of the fringe Eurozone countries (eg Greece) have suffered disproportionally but it's interesting that the Euro has been considerably stronger than the Pound since the crunch and perhaps shows that the Euro isn't such a basket case as its often thought to be. James Young seems very worried about house prices, an issue which has nothing to do with us being in or out of the EU, although it would have been worse had we been in the Euro - see Ireland for instance. It's interesting that we've had figures released yesterday about the economic effect of Scotland leaving the UK. One side says it'll cost the Scots and the other says that they'll see a benefit. Probably the answer lies somewhere in between. Personally I'm in favour of Scotland leaving, mainly so I don't have to listen to Alex blaming everything on the English. As with the issue of the UK leaving the EU it's more a cultural thing that an economic one.[/p][/quote]Ron, I think you are correct in saying that the financial crisis began in the USA (and the UK, which, despite Brown's status as saviour of the banking system, also contributed to the crisis through loosening of financial regulation which led the US to follow suit). My point was really that an individual country within the EU no longer has the control over its own monetary and fiscal policies and thus cannot react in the way that the UK has been able to. The result is that much of Europe is stagnating and its widely believed that the ECB will start the presses again next month. As for the value of the euro, there are two important things to consider. Firstly, Greek bonds had a value one day, and were junk the very next day. Secondly, the EU elites have made it plain that they are prepared to back the Euro using one of two strategies: taxpayer cash (predominantly from Germany) and bail-ins as seen in Cyprus. In short, i think the value of the Euro has more to do with the risk of default than economic growth. That said, i consider the actions taken by the UK to have been criminal, in that the sole focus of Tory economic policy has been the continued underwriting of mortgage lending. The FLS scheme was supposedly to help businesses borrow, but 90%+ of the lending went to mortgage holders. So to say i am worried about house prices is correct - i am worried that we are in a massive bubble and the consequences will be very, very dire. I also think that they are imminent and will happen long before interest rates are put up. In my view, an Ireland style 50% house price crash is needed to save us from ourselves. The short term consequences will be dire for some, but it will return us to where we were in the 1990s, where owning a house was a reasonable aspiration for everybody. Had house prices increased in line with wage price growth, the 2 bed house i bought in 1993 would now be worth £74k, not £150k. Instead, we are fed the lie that population growth is the cause of our woes, which is utter rubbish. In Europe, our house to person ratio is actual fairly high, and the countries that have more houses than us are Ireland and Spain....which have both suffered crashes. House prices are simply a function of bank lending, putting us all into debt based on a lie. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

1:13pm Thu 29 May 14

ronfogg says...

You are right that we still in a house price bubble. I was amazed to find out recently what proportion of mortgages are buy-to-let as opposed to residential. Speculation goes on. Tory policies are indeed pumping up the bubble but other parties are just as bad in this area and UKIP are likely to be worse.

The trouble is that the electorate love parties that push up house prices. Any party that promised to halve the price of houses (which would certainly be possible with a combination of loosening planning, introducing capital gains tax on all houses, increasing stamp duty to 10 or 20%, restricting rents) would never get elected. The best that can be hoped for is a government that tried to hold prices steady for a sustained period, letting inflation have its effect.
You are right that we still in a house price bubble. I was amazed to find out recently what proportion of mortgages are buy-to-let as opposed to residential. Speculation goes on. Tory policies are indeed pumping up the bubble but other parties are just as bad in this area and UKIP are likely to be worse. The trouble is that the electorate love parties that push up house prices. Any party that promised to halve the price of houses (which would certainly be possible with a combination of loosening planning, introducing capital gains tax on all houses, increasing stamp duty to 10 or 20%, restricting rents) would never get elected. The best that can be hoped for is a government that tried to hold prices steady for a sustained period, letting inflation have its effect. ronfogg
  • Score: 0

2:48pm Thu 29 May 14

CaughtJester says...

ronfogg wrote:
BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?
UKIP, if at all.
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?[/p][/quote]UKIP, if at all. CaughtJester
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Thu 29 May 14

JamesYoung says...

ronfogg wrote:
You are right that we still in a house price bubble. I was amazed to find out recently what proportion of mortgages are buy-to-let as opposed to residential. Speculation goes on. Tory policies are indeed pumping up the bubble but other parties are just as bad in this area and UKIP are likely to be worse.

The trouble is that the electorate love parties that push up house prices. Any party that promised to halve the price of houses (which would certainly be possible with a combination of loosening planning, introducing capital gains tax on all houses, increasing stamp duty to 10 or 20%, restricting rents) would never get elected. The best that can be hoped for is a government that tried to hold prices steady for a sustained period, letting inflation have its effect.
Exactly. It's pretty disingenuous of Osborne to make the claims he's making. He claims GDP Is rising and therefore it is fine for house prices to be rising too. But if you look a the sectors that are rising, what do you find? Manufacturing and construction lead the pack - the very sectors that are benefiting from house building. He is encouraging young buyers to get into debt to create the illusion of growth.
The irony, of course, is that prior to his involvement, prices were gradually drifting safely downwards (safely: at a pace that is less than most people are paying down the capital part of their mortgage).
Don't even get me started on buy to let. It's a scourge. Housing benefit is a taxpayer subsidy and has been proven to push up rents. BTL owners get capital appreciation that they then use (untaxed) to buy new BTL property. They get unfair treatment of interest (which is seen as a business expense). Most of them treat their tenants poorly, pushing their rents up as much as the market will bear and in turn depriving those tenants of the opportunity of owning a home of their own.
My prediction: a crash is not far around the corner. I'm astounded that the media is now telling lies. Prices fell in Feb, March and April. Yet the media says growth is still strong, because they look at a year on year average (a 9.2 year on year rise in March and an 8% y-o-y rise in April conceals the fact that prices fell). And as with all of this spin, they are quoting asking prices, not sale prices.
Mortgage approvals were down 13% in April (bear in mind that the new MMR rules only came into play on the 26th April) but the media claims lending is up (total lending is up, but this just means fewer people are buying more expensive houses and people at the bottom of the market are dropping out - not sustainable). Anyway, off topic. I'm just very angry at Osborne and his cronies. I voted for them and they lied.
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: You are right that we still in a house price bubble. I was amazed to find out recently what proportion of mortgages are buy-to-let as opposed to residential. Speculation goes on. Tory policies are indeed pumping up the bubble but other parties are just as bad in this area and UKIP are likely to be worse. The trouble is that the electorate love parties that push up house prices. Any party that promised to halve the price of houses (which would certainly be possible with a combination of loosening planning, introducing capital gains tax on all houses, increasing stamp duty to 10 or 20%, restricting rents) would never get elected. The best that can be hoped for is a government that tried to hold prices steady for a sustained period, letting inflation have its effect.[/p][/quote]Exactly. It's pretty disingenuous of Osborne to make the claims he's making. He claims GDP Is rising and therefore it is fine for house prices to be rising too. But if you look a the sectors that are rising, what do you find? Manufacturing and construction lead the pack - the very sectors that are benefiting from house building. He is encouraging young buyers to get into debt to create the illusion of growth. The irony, of course, is that prior to his involvement, prices were gradually drifting safely downwards (safely: at a pace that is less than most people are paying down the capital part of their mortgage). Don't even get me started on buy to let. It's a scourge. Housing benefit is a taxpayer subsidy and has been proven to push up rents. BTL owners get capital appreciation that they then use (untaxed) to buy new BTL property. They get unfair treatment of interest (which is seen as a business expense). Most of them treat their tenants poorly, pushing their rents up as much as the market will bear and in turn depriving those tenants of the opportunity of owning a home of their own. My prediction: a crash is not far around the corner. I'm astounded that the media is now telling lies. Prices fell in Feb, March and April. Yet the media says growth is still strong, because they look at a year on year average (a 9.2 year on year rise in March and an 8% y-o-y rise in April conceals the fact that prices fell). And as with all of this spin, they are quoting asking prices, not sale prices. Mortgage approvals were down 13% in April (bear in mind that the new MMR rules only came into play on the 26th April) but the media claims lending is up (total lending is up, but this just means fewer people are buying more expensive houses and people at the bottom of the market are dropping out - not sustainable). Anyway, off topic. I'm just very angry at Osborne and his cronies. I voted for them and they lied. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Thu 29 May 14

JamesYoung says...

CaughtJester wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?
UKIP, if at all.
So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter.
[quote][p][bold]CaughtJester[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?[/p][/quote]UKIP, if at all.[/p][/quote]So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

9:26pm Thu 29 May 14

ronfogg says...

JamesYoung wrote:
CaughtJester wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?
UKIP, if at all.
So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter.
But UKIP were an serious alternative in 2009 too. Indeed there were many more parties standing in 2009 and so your reply doesn't really explain the voters change of heart since then.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaughtJester[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?[/p][/quote]UKIP, if at all.[/p][/quote]So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter.[/p][/quote]But UKIP were an serious alternative in 2009 too. Indeed there were many more parties standing in 2009 and so your reply doesn't really explain the voters change of heart since then. ronfogg
  • Score: 1

10:40pm Thu 29 May 14

JamesYoung says...

ronfogg wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
CaughtJester wrote:
ronfogg wrote:
BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?
UKIP, if at all.
So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter.
But UKIP were an serious alternative in 2009 too. Indeed there were many more parties standing in 2009 and so your reply doesn't really explain the voters change of heart since then.
Yup, true enough.
[quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CaughtJester[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ronfogg[/bold] wrote: BNP votes in SW England: 60,889 in 2009, 10,910 in 2014. A big reduction considering we're meant to be more racist now (according to a recent poll). Who did the missing 50,000 vote for this time?[/p][/quote]UKIP, if at all.[/p][/quote]So the question becomes "did the 50,000 vote BNP because those voters were racist" or "did the 50,000 vote BNP because they weren't racist but they didn't see any alternatives"? My guess is it is the latter.[/p][/quote]But UKIP were an serious alternative in 2009 too. Indeed there were many more parties standing in 2009 and so your reply doesn't really explain the voters change of heart since then.[/p][/quote]Yup, true enough. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

6:48am Fri 30 May 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

cj07589 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well.
Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.
Your talking out of your backside.
Australian day is a celebration of the theft of the continent from the aborigine . Once the white South African government dissolved, Australia took up the mantle as most objectionable race on the planet. Obviously not all Australians are bad, but the ones in power most certainly are. Laughably in amongst their many many misdemeanours they dislike the British, referring to us a Poms, a backhanded insult because we continue to be a living proof that they are all basically descended from criminals.
Amongst their worst crimes in my opinion, besides totally stealing a whole continent, is then hypocritically claiming they are nuclear free and continuing ing to be the largest supplier of uranium ore. But this is just something I like to point out to annoying patriotic Australians.
If you want to call me racist because I dislike the government that's probably the closest thing the planet has to apartheid then good luck.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well. Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.[/p][/quote]Your talking out of your backside. Australian day is a celebration of the theft of the continent from the aborigine . Once the white South African government dissolved, Australia took up the mantle as most objectionable race on the planet. Obviously not all Australians are bad, but the ones in power most certainly are. Laughably in amongst their many many misdemeanours they dislike the British, referring to us a Poms, a backhanded insult because we continue to be a living proof that they are all basically descended from criminals. Amongst their worst crimes in my opinion, besides totally stealing a whole continent, is then hypocritically claiming they are nuclear free and continuing ing to be the largest supplier of uranium ore. But this is just something I like to point out to annoying patriotic Australians. If you want to call me racist because I dislike the government that's probably the closest thing the planet has to apartheid then good luck. Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: -1

2:11pm Fri 30 May 14

breamoreboy says...

Parkstreetshufle wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
Parkstreetshufle wrote:
I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on.
The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it.
Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...
On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand.
You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.
Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish?
Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?
Ducking the question again, old bean?
I'm 43 and i work in the City.
That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there.
Do you live in London as well? or did you live here?
What is your question? does it relate to the other parties?
What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?
Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London.
My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want)
Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system).
What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.
Ok,
To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record.

The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed.

In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be.

Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud.
Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos.
I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites.
Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do.
My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.
You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well.
Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.
Your talking out of your backside.
Australian day is a celebration of the theft of the continent from the aborigine . Once the white South African government dissolved, Australia took up the mantle as most objectionable race on the planet. Obviously not all Australians are bad, but the ones in power most certainly are. Laughably in amongst their many many misdemeanours they dislike the British, referring to us a Poms, a backhanded insult because we continue to be a living proof that they are all basically descended from criminals.
Amongst their worst crimes in my opinion, besides totally stealing a whole continent, is then hypocritically claiming they are nuclear free and continuing ing to be the largest supplier of uranium ore. But this is just something I like to point out to annoying patriotic Australians.
If you want to call me racist because I dislike the government that's probably the closest thing the planet has to apartheid then good luck.
If you must make statements like that wouldn't it be a good idea to give at least a passing reference to the USA?
[quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Parkstreetshufle[/bold] wrote: I don't really need to explain that. The union with countries like Germany an France is obviously on balance more beneficial than costly. The situation is somewhat like the Romans - and has been quoted, what did the Europeans ever do for us, and the list goes on and on. The action of shutting the door quite obviously means that trade will be hobnailed, no matter what way you stack it. Likewise if your 63 and have a nice pension to look forward to, you would rather have the most made of that and not give a monkeys about trade with Europe. The ukip thing has been instigated by very short sighted self serving pensioners that should be bloody ashamed of themselves...[/p][/quote]On the contrary, you DO need to explain that, but it seems you've entirely ducked a legitimate question, while demonstrating your lack of understanding of the issues at hand. You have referred to a "union" with countries like Germany and France which is more beneficial than it is costly. As we do not yet have political or currency union, you must be talking about free trade, which existed long before political or currency union was mooted - and which even the most ardent euro sceptic is in favour of. Therefore, I can only conclude that you actually have no understanding of the issues at stake.[/p][/quote]Your argument is overly aggressive and a bit insulting. Whats with that? Are you one of the old people I have accused of being selfish? Please explain - are we or are we not part of the European Union? as I thought we were? Maybe Im being thick?[/p][/quote]Ducking the question again, old bean? I'm 43 and i work in the City.[/p][/quote]That makes you fairly similar to me then, my work also comes from London predominantly, although I don't commute there. Do you live in London as well? or did you live here? What is your question? does it relate to the other parties? What are you talking about with the EU? your comments make no sense?[/p][/quote]Nope, i live in Weymouth. I grew up here, went to school here, and live here. I work in London largely because successive governments have focussed all their energy on the wrong policies, meaning that nearly all jobs that require any skill are focussed around London. My question to you is what you think the benefits of full membership of the EU are, but to make it very specific. Firstly, what are the benefits of full membership in comparison to what we voted for in 1974 - a common market? Secondly, what condition do you think the country would be in if we had adopted full political union and the euro (which is what i mean by the EU - since this is what at least 2 of the 3 mainstream parties really want) Thirdly, do you feel that uncontrolled (as opposed to controlled) immigration on the scale that it is presently running at is good for Britain (in the context of our massive public debt, the relatively small contribution that young immigrants make to the tax system). What I'm trying to get to is this: the benefits of free trade and controlled immigration can be reached just as easily outside of political union as in in, but when we are "out" we also have far more control over our own economy, which should be the number one thing that every single voter in this country is worried about.[/p][/quote]Ok, To be honest, I stand by what I said. For the wider populace there is a lot of benefit from being part of the EU. If your approaching the end of the curve, everything taking place within a European Union seems like a waste of time. Idiots like Farage would only ever bring pain and suffering if they were to gain a foothold. Ultimately the stick is not the way to go over the carrot Im afraid. You must have seen the state of the country under Thatcher - it was pretty awful. Im not saying that Blair was any better. But given the toss up, they are still infintely better than someone with no track record. The problem with what your saying is you are kind of assuming that there is a clean slate to be had by simply withdrawing from Europe. Its not as simple as that. Its as idealistic as being in a thirty year marriage and assuming you can just walk away and start again because you will be in the same position as you were prior to the marriage. Its not the same deal on the table. That time has passed. In essence being 'out' is going to be painful, and place us at the bottom of the trough. Not a place I want to be. Specifically the question of benefit of full membership is that in a nutshell a single state is more efficient financially, politically and productively than a group of states in contention. Its been that way since man got up out of the mud. Currently we have a workaround thats crap. We go to the table with very little to offer ( because we don't want to, not because we don't have anything to offer ), and unsurprisingly come away with very little in return. The old adage you don't get a free meal is very true, unless you are of course a politician and benefiting from the chaos. I think that full membership would be less problematic than what we have now. Politicians here are generating work for themselves by simply dragging their heels. People like Farage are string up discontent whilst making a nice little living for themselves and to me are parasites. Again the question of immigration is not as simple as boiling it down to a few immigrants that make a minimal turnover and pay a bit of tax working a dog end job. Real jobs are not going to go to Romanians, never have, never will. Sure there might be a few that sell a bit of scrap. There might be a few more trafficking prostitutes, but name me a place in Europe that doesn't suffer from that. Most are working in something most British people don't want to do. My problem is with the undercurrent of intolerance just below the surface. I give you the Australians. Hardest immigration requirements. The worst ethics in the world. We do not want to end up like the Australians.[/p][/quote]You've really outdone yourself this time! So let me get this straight you have previously & wrongly claimed UKIP is a racist party then in your final paragraph (above) preach about undertones of intolerance and then go on to racially criticise Australian's for their backbone and 'ethics' what ever that means? So by your own omission you are no only intolerant but racially predujuiced as well. Like I have said previously why don't you leave the debating to the adults and learn to respect and be tolerant of different countries their cultures and their ways.[/p][/quote]Your talking out of your backside. Australian day is a celebration of the theft of the continent from the aborigine . Once the white South African government dissolved, Australia took up the mantle as most objectionable race on the planet. Obviously not all Australians are bad, but the ones in power most certainly are. Laughably in amongst their many many misdemeanours they dislike the British, referring to us a Poms, a backhanded insult because we continue to be a living proof that they are all basically descended from criminals. Amongst their worst crimes in my opinion, besides totally stealing a whole continent, is then hypocritically claiming they are nuclear free and continuing ing to be the largest supplier of uranium ore. But this is just something I like to point out to annoying patriotic Australians. If you want to call me racist because I dislike the government that's probably the closest thing the planet has to apartheid then good luck.[/p][/quote]If you must make statements like that wouldn't it be a good idea to give at least a passing reference to the USA? breamoreboy
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