WITH VIDEO- ECHO INTERVIEWS CONDOR BOSS: Council could fund new berth from ferry fees he says

Dorset Echo: TALKS: Condor CEO James Fulford TALKS: Condor CEO James Fulford

COUNCIL chiefs need to play their part to secure a cross-Channel ferry operation from Weymouth.

That’s the message from the boss of Condor Ferries who has made no promises about the firm’s future in Weymouth, but says harbour fees from a new super ferry the company wants to buy could fund upgrade works in the harbour.

Watch a video of the interview here

Condor Chief Executive James Fulford said ideally the company wanted to stay in Weymouth, but it was dependant on works being done to upgrade berth 1 to accommodate the high-speed trimaran.

The company has not ruled out making a contribution to these works.

In an interview with the Dorset Echo Mr Fulford explained how:

  • Condor is looking to upgrade its vessels and invest in a safe, efficient and up-to-date fleet to keep the Channel Islands connected and supplied into the future
  • Condor Express launched in 1996 and Condor Vitesse launched in 1997 were coming to the end of their lives
  • To replace existing vessels, Condor wants to buy a £50m high-speed trimaran (Austal H270) at 102 metres long which would have 20 per cent more capacity, offer a far more comfortable ride and be able to sail in adverse weather
  • Funding from investors to buy the new ferry can be unlocked if Condor receives the certainty of a new Channel Islands operating licence. A decision on the licence, expected to last up to 10 years, is expected at the end of June
  • If successful, the new ferry would begin sailings from Easter 2015, replacing the dual sailings from Weymouth and Poole
  • Berth 1 near Weymouth Harbour entrance is the only suitable location for the new ferry as it would have problems getting round the corner
  • Discussions have been held about going to Portland Port but this probably isn’t an option due to the constraints of the road network. Mr Fulford said he was 'nervous' of the drive time involved to Portland, particularly in the summer

Condor staying in Weymouth depends on Weymouth and Portland Borough Council raising £10m to upgrade berth 1.

It comes after the council spent more than £3 million fixing berth 3 in the harbour so Condor could resume operations last year.

Mr Fulford said the prospect of a new ferry ‘wasn’t on the table’ when works were done at berth 3. The works had to be done whatever happened, he said. The company started investigating the new vessel last year but refused to say when the council was informed.

Mr Fulford said Condor would ‘love’ to continue operating from Weymouth but that was dependent on whether the council is able to invest in upgrading the harbour, and the outcome of an environmental impact assessment which would be needed if works were given the go-ahead.

He said the council was responsible for investing in the port and suggested the authority could recoup the £10m from upgrading berth 1 from the new fees Condor would pay which would be in the region of £1m a year.

The current ferry operation currently generates a net income of around £225,000.

Asked if Condor would make a contribution to the works, Mr Fulford said it would be unusual for an operator to do that having already made an investment but he said it hadn’t been ruled out.

Mr Fulford said: “It’s an interesting and important time for the company. We have to ensure we do what we have to do which is to support our routes between the UK, Channel Islands and France. We’re a one trick pony in that respect.

“The important thing for us is that we invest in a safe, efficient and up to date fleet. Standing still is not an option.

“We have now got to the stage where an opportunity for reinvestment has presented itself.

“This opportunity is now very ‘live’. To make the investment we need the certainty of a licence so it’s very pertinent to be talking about this now.

“We hope to have this concluded by the end of June.”

Mr Fulford denied the council had been landed with a ‘bombshell’ over the company’s requirements or that it was ‘holding the town to ransom’ – a charge previously aimed at Condor.

“We’re saying we need to invest for the future to keep doing what we do, and we will do that from the appropriate port that provides modern facilities that make it safe to operate.

“We would love that to be Weymouth and hope that will be the case.”

He added that if harbour works went ahead at Weymouth Condor would need to ‘look at other options’ if the berth wasn’t ready by the 2015 sailing schedule next Easter.

Asked if Condor had an obligation to keep operating from Weymouth, Mr Fulford said: “Our obligation is to provide an effective lifeline link between the Channel Islands, France and the UK.

“The borough council has to do what is best for the council and the people of Weymouth and Portland and we would hope providing appropriate ferry port facilities is an important part of the strategy.

“I don’t recognise the language of being held to ransom, we’ve made it clear we’d love to sail from Weymouth and value our relationship with the town.

“We are happy to pay the market rate for suitable berthing facilities for a modern fleet.

“It would be appropriate for the port owner to provide appropriate facilities and hope that will be the case.”

 

Council working behind scenes

URGENT work has been going on behind the scenes at Weymouth and Portland Borough Council in case Condor sets sail.

Council chiefs have asked the government for funding to finance new berth works and have also applied for support through the Dorset Local Enterprise Partnership.

It has sought specialist legal advice to draw up a Harbour Revision Order timetable if berth 1 works go ahead and are discussing the issue with the Channel Islands’ Government to understand their position in agreeing a new 10-year deal.

However as a back-up plan the council has also approached other ferry companies to identify an alternative operator if Condor left town.

Comments (74)

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3:57pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Schrodinger's Cat says...

Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth.
No? Didn't think so.
Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth. No? Didn't think so. Schrodinger's Cat
  • Score: 10

4:07pm Mon 9 Jun 14

weymouthfox says...

The prudent course of action is to have kept some of the large berthing fees from Condor over 20 years in reserve- to meet the coss of maintaining the harbour. Our councillors, as always badly advised by the property services officers, have chosen to spend the money elsewhere. This is yet another illustration of how inept our councillors are. I wouldn't trust them with a model ship on Radipole Lake.
The prudent course of action is to have kept some of the large berthing fees from Condor over 20 years in reserve- to meet the coss of maintaining the harbour. Our councillors, as always badly advised by the property services officers, have chosen to spend the money elsewhere. This is yet another illustration of how inept our councillors are. I wouldn't trust them with a model ship on Radipole Lake. weymouthfox
  • Score: 33

4:41pm Mon 9 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

Schrodinger's Cat wrote:
Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth.
No? Didn't think so.
Or use the fees that have already been paid for many years by Condor???
[quote][p][bold]Schrodinger's Cat[/bold] wrote: Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth. No? Didn't think so.[/p][/quote]Or use the fees that have already been paid for many years by Condor??? sandman223
  • Score: 20

4:45pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

All sounds so simple, find 10 Million (10 million!!) and then with ALL the money over the next ten years pay yourself back. More like 30 years, there is of course running costs during the year that the council will have to pay, etc etc. I tell you what if I was on the Council, I would be saying good luck Mr Fulford but you are having a laugh! 10 Million after we just forked out 4 Million, I tell you, if the council go ahead with this madness I won't be a happy voter I can tell you. He wants his cake and eat it this boy, which if I was part of Condor I would be saying, yippee Mr Fulford, but I am not, I am tax payer and I don't want 10 MILLION paid to this shark.
All sounds so simple, find 10 Million (10 million!!) and then with ALL the money over the next ten years pay yourself back. More like 30 years, there is of course running costs during the year that the council will have to pay, etc etc. I tell you what if I was on the Council, I would be saying good luck Mr Fulford but you are having a laugh! 10 Million after we just forked out 4 Million, I tell you, if the council go ahead with this madness I won't be a happy voter I can tell you. He wants his cake and eat it this boy, which if I was part of Condor I would be saying, yippee Mr Fulford, but I am not, I am tax payer and I don't want 10 MILLION paid to this shark. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 8

4:58pm Mon 9 Jun 14

whatever66 says...

how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long.
how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long. whatever66
  • Score: -5

5:06pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

whatever66 wrote:
how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long.
You might have fair points, but it's completely off subject. I hope we can stick to the point here, should we be paying 10 Million or not?
[quote][p][bold]whatever66[/bold] wrote: how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long.[/p][/quote]You might have fair points, but it's completely off subject. I hope we can stick to the point here, should we be paying 10 Million or not? MrTomSmith
  • Score: -1

5:06pm Mon 9 Jun 14

WykeReg says...

Perhaps it's time to consider re-opening the railway line from Weymouth to Portland with a spur into Portland Port. No problem with roads in that case. Or we could just forget the whole thing.
Perhaps it's time to consider re-opening the railway line from Weymouth to Portland with a spur into Portland Port. No problem with roads in that case. Or we could just forget the whole thing. WykeReg
  • Score: 9

5:35pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

WykeReg wrote:
Perhaps it's time to consider re-opening the railway line from Weymouth to Portland with a spur into Portland Port. No problem with roads in that case. Or we could just forget the whole thing.
Well at least we know now that Mr Fulford does consider the road to be a problem. Because before this little bit of information today, we were guessing about that problem. . I don't think a rail line is going to help a car ferry though mate.
[quote][p][bold]WykeReg[/bold] wrote: Perhaps it's time to consider re-opening the railway line from Weymouth to Portland with a spur into Portland Port. No problem with roads in that case. Or we could just forget the whole thing.[/p][/quote]Well at least we know now that Mr Fulford does consider the road to be a problem. Because before this little bit of information today, we were guessing about that problem. . I don't think a rail line is going to help a car ferry though mate. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 8

5:38pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

sandman223 wrote:
Schrodinger's Cat wrote:
Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth.
No? Didn't think so.
Or use the fees that have already been paid for many years by Condor???
We have just used them, albeit in the wrong order, but we have just paid out 4 Million. So they have now been spent.
[quote][p][bold]sandman223[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Schrodinger's Cat[/bold] wrote: Or maybe Condor would like to pay ten years fees up front, so that the Council has the money to spend on the berth. No? Didn't think so.[/p][/quote]Or use the fees that have already been paid for many years by Condor???[/p][/quote]We have just used them, albeit in the wrong order, but we have just paid out 4 Million. So they have now been spent. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 8

6:15pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

At least this confirms what I have been saying all along - Condor really want to stay In Weymouth, and will only go to Poole if they have no other option.
At least this confirms what I have been saying all along - Condor really want to stay In Weymouth, and will only go to Poole if they have no other option. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: -1

6:49pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Get a grip says...

So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea. Get a grip
  • Score: 7

6:52pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not!
[quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not! Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 8

7:02pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Rocksalt says...

I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour.
I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour. Rocksalt
  • Score: 4

7:28pm Mon 9 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

whatever66 wrote:
how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long.
Off topic, but please stop referring to it as a "bedroom tax".
If i give you £100 tomorrow, then tell you on Wednesday i'm only going to give you £50, would you call it a tax?
[quote][p][bold]whatever66[/bold] wrote: how much do the council take form us every year in total in in community tax??? and now the dreaded bedroom tax ??? all this extra income coming from our pocket and yet where does the money go???? it certainly is not being out back in to the town....... with closed down shops and lots of pubs and clubs to entice the public with over priced car parks.... it used to be a lovely little town with loads of nice shops but now its full of cheap and nasty shops full of tack..... thank god for M & S and Debenhams and they will no doubt take there business some where else before long.[/p][/quote]Off topic, but please stop referring to it as a "bedroom tax". If i give you £100 tomorrow, then tell you on Wednesday i'm only going to give you £50, would you call it a tax? JamesYoung
  • Score: 4

7:29pm Mon 9 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
They just need an agreement that ties in Condor for a period of time. I doubt Condor will want to sign anything more than 5 years, because they'll probably want another, bigger, ferry in that time.
[quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]They just need an agreement that ties in Condor for a period of time. I doubt Condor will want to sign anything more than 5 years, because they'll probably want another, bigger, ferry in that time. JamesYoung
  • Score: 1

7:35pm Mon 9 Jun 14

macca18 says...

If £10 million is spent on berth one the next thing Condor will be looking for is a new terminal building as the existing one is very outdated, more money to be found
If £10 million is spent on berth one the next thing Condor will be looking for is a new terminal building as the existing one is very outdated, more money to be found macca18
  • Score: 10

7:50pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
They just need an agreement that ties in Condor for a period of time. I doubt Condor will want to sign anything more than 5 years, because they'll probably want another, bigger, ferry in that time.
Yes, but the work being suggested for berth 1 will support even bigger vessels going forward as well.

This is a once in a generation chance for Weymouth to secure its long term future as a 21st century ferry terminal - if Condor does leave for ever in 2015, that will be it for ever.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]They just need an agreement that ties in Condor for a period of time. I doubt Condor will want to sign anything more than 5 years, because they'll probably want another, bigger, ferry in that time.[/p][/quote]Yes, but the work being suggested for berth 1 will support even bigger vessels going forward as well. This is a once in a generation chance for Weymouth to secure its long term future as a 21st century ferry terminal - if Condor does leave for ever in 2015, that will be it for ever. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 4

7:51pm Mon 9 Jun 14

AManFromMars says...

The current ferry operation currently generates a net income of around £225,000.....

So even if the net income increases to 500k per annum, that is still 20 years to break even on the venture, not including interest lost on the initial 10million.
As Condor replace their fleet every 20 years it seems, this will be a constant revolver door of Weymouth subsidising Condors existence in the town based on the few direct jobs and indirect trade it generates.

The 10milion could otherwise be far better spent.

Sorry, but it just doesn't look viable.
The current ferry operation currently generates a net income of around £225,000..... So even if the net income increases to 500k per annum, that is still 20 years to break even on the venture, not including interest lost on the initial 10million. As Condor replace their fleet every 20 years it seems, this will be a constant revolver door of Weymouth subsidising Condors existence in the town based on the few direct jobs and indirect trade it generates. The 10milion could otherwise be far better spent. Sorry, but it just doesn't look viable. AManFromMars
  • Score: 7

7:52pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

Rocksalt wrote:
I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour.
You are fogetting the cost to Portland Port of installing a 21st century ferry terminal, and linkspan, not to mention parking space for up to 250 cars!
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour.[/p][/quote]You are fogetting the cost to Portland Port of installing a 21st century ferry terminal, and linkspan, not to mention parking space for up to 250 cars! Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 9

7:54pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

macca18 wrote:
If £10 million is spent on berth one the next thing Condor will be looking for is a new terminal building as the existing one is very outdated, more money to be found
The 10 million quoted includes a complete reworking of the terminal area to accomodate vehicles departing the quay from a different direction, and a replacement terminal building. I have to say though that they did a very good job on the current one when they returned last year.
[quote][p][bold]macca18[/bold] wrote: If £10 million is spent on berth one the next thing Condor will be looking for is a new terminal building as the existing one is very outdated, more money to be found[/p][/quote]The 10 million quoted includes a complete reworking of the terminal area to accomodate vehicles departing the quay from a different direction, and a replacement terminal building. I have to say though that they did a very good job on the current one when they returned last year. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: -2

7:55pm Mon 9 Jun 14

custos says...

We are constantly being told there is no money - how can we even consider spending £10 million to pay what amounts to blackmail for goodness sake!
We are constantly being told there is no money - how can we even consider spending £10 million to pay what amounts to blackmail for goodness sake! custos
  • Score: 11

9:09pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

custos wrote:
We are constantly being told there is no money - how can we even consider spending £10 million to pay what amounts to blackmail for goodness sake!
Spot on
[quote][p][bold]custos[/bold] wrote: We are constantly being told there is no money - how can we even consider spending £10 million to pay what amounts to blackmail for goodness sake![/p][/quote]Spot on MrTomSmith
  • Score: 6

9:15pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Get a grip says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not!
But would a repair cost £4 million?
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not![/p][/quote]But would a repair cost £4 million? Get a grip
  • Score: 6

10:41pm Mon 9 Jun 14

Rocksalt says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour.
You are fogetting the cost to Portland Port of installing a 21st century ferry terminal, and linkspan, not to mention parking space for up to 250 cars!
I am not forgetting anything. I was picking up on the one substantive point Fulford raised in terms of Portland, which was the road access.

In terms of the specific points you raise I will happily concede my ignorance as to the potential cost of a ferry terminal. . As to car parking, personally I can't see that is an insurmountable problem any more than catering for 250 cars in the middle of Weymouth.
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: I still fail to understand why the road to Portland is judged to be so problematic. Not when compared to roads to and from Weymouth Harbour.[/p][/quote]You are fogetting the cost to Portland Port of installing a 21st century ferry terminal, and linkspan, not to mention parking space for up to 250 cars![/p][/quote]I am not forgetting anything. I was picking up on the one substantive point Fulford raised in terms of Portland, which was the road access. In terms of the specific points you raise I will happily concede my ignorance as to the potential cost of a ferry terminal. . As to car parking, personally I can't see that is an insurmountable problem any more than catering for 250 cars in the middle of Weymouth. Rocksalt
  • Score: -2

11:44pm Mon 9 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not!
I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there.
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not![/p][/quote]I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 0

12:11am Tue 10 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

AManFromMars wrote:
The current ferry operation currently generates a net income of around £225,000.....

So even if the net income increases to 500k per annum, that is still 20 years to break even on the venture, not including interest lost on the initial 10million.
As Condor replace their fleet every 20 years it seems, this will be a constant revolver door of Weymouth subsidising Condors existence in the town based on the few direct jobs and indirect trade it generates.

The 10milion could otherwise be far better spent.

Sorry, but it just doesn't look viable.
I agree, It said earlier that the income would be 1M a year but that has gone now.
It does say that Condor MIGHT be willing to fork out something towards this, but it doesn't say how much, so pretty useless information without that important ingredient.
It also says that Mr Fulford "is nervous" about the road to Portland. Look Mr Fulford having lived here all my life I can tell you their is nothing major wrong with the road to Portland. It is only the useless traffic light system that causes the delays at peak times. Out of peak times there is no problem. Get those stupid traffic lights working or remove them and the road would be bearable during peak times.
Please don't try and make us out to be fools here, we are not, this "is nervous" rubbish is just that, rubbish. Even if you do get stuck in a bit of a queue what is it 10-15 minutes. There is the odd emergency that can cause major delays I will say that, but that can happen on any road.
Come on Mr Fulford you are paying 50 Million! for this boat, and you want a small town to pay 10 Million for you to work it...........you are having a laugh as I said before. Good Joke though. I will keep hammering on, this should be turned down without any hesitation, it is far too much.
[quote][p][bold]AManFromMars[/bold] wrote: The current ferry operation currently generates a net income of around £225,000..... So even if the net income increases to 500k per annum, that is still 20 years to break even on the venture, not including interest lost on the initial 10million. As Condor replace their fleet every 20 years it seems, this will be a constant revolver door of Weymouth subsidising Condors existence in the town based on the few direct jobs and indirect trade it generates. The 10milion could otherwise be far better spent. Sorry, but it just doesn't look viable.[/p][/quote]I agree, It said earlier that the income would be 1M a year but that has gone now. It does say that Condor MIGHT be willing to fork out something towards this, but it doesn't say how much, so pretty useless information without that important ingredient. It also says that Mr Fulford "is nervous" about the road to Portland. Look Mr Fulford having lived here all my life I can tell you their is nothing major wrong with the road to Portland. It is only the useless traffic light system that causes the delays at peak times. Out of peak times there is no problem. Get those stupid traffic lights working or remove them and the road would be bearable during peak times. Please don't try and make us out to be fools here, we are not, this "is nervous" rubbish is just that, rubbish. Even if you do get stuck in a bit of a queue what is it 10-15 minutes. There is the odd emergency that can cause major delays I will say that, but that can happen on any road. Come on Mr Fulford you are paying 50 Million! for this boat, and you want a small town to pay 10 Million for you to work it...........you are having a laugh as I said before. Good Joke though. I will keep hammering on, this should be turned down without any hesitation, it is far too much. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 5

8:11am Tue 10 Jun 14

arlbergbahn says...

What an arrogant organisation ferry company Condor are. We want you to spend this money for our own sole benefit, is what they're saying. Pay for it yourselves then, you arrogant organisation.
What an arrogant organisation ferry company Condor are. We want you to spend this money for our own sole benefit, is what they're saying. Pay for it yourselves then, you arrogant organisation. arlbergbahn
  • Score: 6

8:47am Tue 10 Jun 14

Rocksalt says...

This may ultimately boil down to whether£10m spent on keeping Condor is value for money. That means having some robust figures setting out the benefits to the local economy. Yes, I am sure the ferry does bring benefits, but we might get more value investing £10m elsewhere.

For example, how many of the Condor employees live in the Borough ? How many of the better paid officers live in the Borough ? How many W&P suppliers does Condor use ? How many ferry passengers use local hotels ?
This may ultimately boil down to whether£10m spent on keeping Condor is value for money. That means having some robust figures setting out the benefits to the local economy. Yes, I am sure the ferry does bring benefits, but we might get more value investing £10m elsewhere. For example, how many of the Condor employees live in the Borough ? How many of the better paid officers live in the Borough ? How many W&P suppliers does Condor use ? How many ferry passengers use local hotels ? Rocksalt
  • Score: 8

9:14am Tue 10 Jun 14

Preston North End says...

On a different note, have you seen the ship they're thinking of buying? It looks cool: http://www.gizmag.co
m/ship-design-austal
-102-trimaran/12433/
On a different note, have you seen the ship they're thinking of buying? It looks cool: http://www.gizmag.co m/ship-design-austal -102-trimaran/12433/ Preston North End
  • Score: 0

9:25am Tue 10 Jun 14

arlbergbahn says...

"URGENT work has been going on behind the scenes at Weymouth and Portland Borough Council in case Condor sets sail."
I also see that it seems to be provided with masts and a sailing rig as emergency backup, according to what the Echo says.
"URGENT work has been going on behind the scenes at Weymouth and Portland Borough Council in case Condor sets sail." I also see that it seems to be provided with masts and a sailing rig as emergency backup, according to what the Echo says. arlbergbahn
  • Score: -1

9:52am Tue 10 Jun 14

CaughtJester says...

Here's a question: what is the Pavilion peninsula worth without Condor? More, presumably. If there's no requirement for parking or a terminal on that site, it is potentially more attractive to a developer. Could any alternative usage equal or greater economic benefit to the town?
Here's a question: what is the Pavilion peninsula worth without Condor? More, presumably. If there's no requirement for parking or a terminal on that site, it is potentially more attractive to a developer. Could any alternative usage equal or greater economic benefit to the town? CaughtJester
  • Score: 0

11:16am Tue 10 Jun 14

scubadude says...

I wonder if anyone will actually check if the 105mtr long ferry would fit the existing berth used by the 90mtr long ferries... I agree negotiating in and out will be harder but is it impossible?
I wonder because the ticket price of a new berth (£10million) buys alot of other stuff... like a pilot/tug boat to assist berthing a bigger vessel in the old berth which would cost Far less and be more flexible.
Mr Fulford can call it whatever he likes but the fact is that its blackmail plain and simple... he's admitted the considered a bigger ferry last year once the council was committed to fixing the old berth. Had the council known they could have chsone to tell Condor to "Jog on" and simple bulldozed the old berth and saved the money wasted (it now seems) repairing it.
I wonder if anyone will actually check if the 105mtr long ferry would fit the existing berth used by the 90mtr long ferries... I agree negotiating in and out will be harder but is it impossible? I wonder because the ticket price of a new berth (£10million) buys alot of other stuff... like a pilot/tug boat to assist berthing a bigger vessel in the old berth which would cost Far less and be more flexible. Mr Fulford can call it whatever he likes but the fact is that its blackmail plain and simple... he's admitted the considered a bigger ferry last year once the council was committed to fixing the old berth. Had the council known they could have chsone to tell Condor to "Jog on" and simple bulldozed the old berth and saved the money wasted (it now seems) repairing it. scubadude
  • Score: 3

12:13pm Tue 10 Jun 14

siratb says...

Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats.

To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO.

The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none.

No brainer.
Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats. To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO. The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none. No brainer. siratb
  • Score: -3

1:20pm Tue 10 Jun 14

arlbergbahn says...

scubadude wrote:
I wonder if anyone will actually check if the 105mtr long ferry would fit the existing berth used by the 90mtr long ferries... I agree negotiating in and out will be harder but is it impossible?
I wonder because the ticket price of a new berth (£10million) buys alot of other stuff... like a pilot/tug boat to assist berthing a bigger vessel in the old berth which would cost Far less and be more flexible.
Mr Fulford can call it whatever he likes but the fact is that its blackmail plain and simple... he's admitted the considered a bigger ferry last year once the council was committed to fixing the old berth. Had the council known they could have chsone to tell Condor to "Jog on" and simple bulldozed the old berth and saved the money wasted (it now seems) repairing it.
I'm pretty sure length isn't a problem, the Sealink ferries were about 350ft, which is +/- 106 m, what might be an issue is the width, and I suppose this "new" one may not be able to fit the current linkspan.
[quote][p][bold]scubadude[/bold] wrote: I wonder if anyone will actually check if the 105mtr long ferry would fit the existing berth used by the 90mtr long ferries... I agree negotiating in and out will be harder but is it impossible? I wonder because the ticket price of a new berth (£10million) buys alot of other stuff... like a pilot/tug boat to assist berthing a bigger vessel in the old berth which would cost Far less and be more flexible. Mr Fulford can call it whatever he likes but the fact is that its blackmail plain and simple... he's admitted the considered a bigger ferry last year once the council was committed to fixing the old berth. Had the council known they could have chsone to tell Condor to "Jog on" and simple bulldozed the old berth and saved the money wasted (it now seems) repairing it.[/p][/quote]I'm pretty sure length isn't a problem, the Sealink ferries were about 350ft, which is +/- 106 m, what might be an issue is the width, and I suppose this "new" one may not be able to fit the current linkspan. arlbergbahn
  • Score: 3

1:29pm Tue 10 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

siratb wrote:
Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats.

To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO.

The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none.

No brainer.
I think you're wrong, actually (in part at least).
I think CaughtJester is spot on. Before you can make a decision you need to have a detailed understanding of the benefit to the town. It is probably in excess of the £225,000 berthing fees, but it is probably nowhere near the £7m a year i've seen quoted in the past.When you have this, you have to look at the opportunity cost: i.e., how much you are losing by retaining Condor.
For example, 100 additional marina berths would bring in around £200k a year. Visiting yacht crews are forever complaining about the lack of facilities. Double the number of visitor moorings and you would certainly get some benefit - unlike ferry passengers, yacht crews do spend money in the town. Likewise, what could £10m be used for on the Peninsula itself. I have long argued that the Pavilion should be pulled down and the resultant savings used to provide free parking from September to April (which it would). I've also argued that we need an all weather attraction and a more creative investment than the Wey First (i think that's what they are called) has proposed. For example, an all weather water park could probably be built for £10m (i did some research on this and it looks like £10m would admittedly be towards the lower end). This would easily pay for itself since (i) the old Marsh Road pool could be closed and savings made there, with people then spending money at the new place and (ii) councils that have invested in these have reported a positive return. The Alexandra Gardens could also be bulldozed and replaced with a smaller theatre and, if desired, the entire sea front could then be pedestrianised or maybe some kind of tramway added.
So personally, i don't think its a "no brainer" at all. You say there is always the possibility of attracting new business but what do you mean by that? The port isn't big enough for cruise liners, so they are out. Commercial traffic will always go to Portland Port, because Weymouth is too small these days. That leaves other ferry companies. With average margins of about 7% and shrinking, no other company is going to move to Weymouth to compete with Condor in Poole.
[quote][p][bold]siratb[/bold] wrote: Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats. To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO. The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none. No brainer.[/p][/quote]I think you're wrong, actually (in part at least). I think CaughtJester is spot on. Before you can make a decision you need to have a detailed understanding of the benefit to the town. It is probably in excess of the £225,000 berthing fees, but it is probably nowhere near the £7m a year i've seen quoted in the past.When you have this, you have to look at the opportunity cost: i.e., how much you are losing by retaining Condor. For example, 100 additional marina berths would bring in around £200k a year. Visiting yacht crews are forever complaining about the lack of facilities. Double the number of visitor moorings and you would certainly get some benefit - unlike ferry passengers, yacht crews do spend money in the town. Likewise, what could £10m be used for on the Peninsula itself. I have long argued that the Pavilion should be pulled down and the resultant savings used to provide free parking from September to April (which it would). I've also argued that we need an all weather attraction and a more creative investment than the Wey First (i think that's what they are called) has proposed. For example, an all weather water park could probably be built for £10m (i did some research on this and it looks like £10m would admittedly be towards the lower end). This would easily pay for itself since (i) the old Marsh Road pool could be closed and savings made there, with people then spending money at the new place and (ii) councils that have invested in these have reported a positive return. The Alexandra Gardens could also be bulldozed and replaced with a smaller theatre and, if desired, the entire sea front could then be pedestrianised or maybe some kind of tramway added. So personally, i don't think its a "no brainer" at all. You say there is always the possibility of attracting new business but what do you mean by that? The port isn't big enough for cruise liners, so they are out. Commercial traffic will always go to Portland Port, because Weymouth is too small these days. That leaves other ferry companies. With average margins of about 7% and shrinking, no other company is going to move to Weymouth to compete with Condor in Poole. JamesYoung
  • Score: 6

1:57pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Under35andout says...

just fix it make it all bigger whats the problem council spend 10 mill make 50 mill what the problem
just fix it make it all bigger whats the problem council spend 10 mill make 50 mill what the problem Under35andout
  • Score: -3

1:57pm Tue 10 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

Everyone keeps saying the 10 million would be better spent on blah blah blah but where is this 10 Million? Oh that 10 Million that we are being asked for, but haven't got, that 10 Million. Stop rattling on about what we can do with 10 Million, wasting your time.
Everyone keeps saying the 10 million would be better spent on blah blah blah but where is this 10 Million? Oh that 10 Million that we are being asked for, but haven't got, that 10 Million. Stop rattling on about what we can do with 10 Million, wasting your time. MrTomSmith
  • Score: 3

1:59pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Under35andout says...

why would condor pay up front what if condor gets brought out or wants to be sold then another firm comes in with free fees ? that not for sale some people have no common sense , oh wait its weymouth mc donalds and kfc workers , best hopes is asda all makes perfect sense now
why would condor pay up front what if condor gets brought out or wants to be sold then another firm comes in with free fees ? that not for sale some people have no common sense , oh wait its weymouth mc donalds and kfc workers , best hopes is asda all makes perfect sense now Under35andout
  • Score: -2

2:01pm Tue 10 Jun 14

Under35andout says...

MAKE NEW BERTH INCREASE FEES ACCORDINGLY
MAKE NEW BERTH INCREASE FEES ACCORDINGLY Under35andout
  • Score: 0

3:31pm Tue 10 Jun 14

February1948 says...

Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
We in Dorchester can sympathise with the people of Weymouth - we are still fuming over the millions of OUR money handed over to Simons the developers as fees for a development that hasn't happened, nor is likely to, apart from Mr. Gould's folly aka WDDC offices. So, don't let it happen, you'll be lucky to see YOUR money being used for YOUR town's benefit. Still, it's easier to spend what isn't yours after all.
[quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]We in Dorchester can sympathise with the people of Weymouth - we are still fuming over the millions of OUR money handed over to Simons the developers as fees for a development that hasn't happened, nor is likely to, apart from Mr. Gould's folly aka WDDC offices. So, don't let it happen, you'll be lucky to see YOUR money being used for YOUR town's benefit. Still, it's easier to spend what isn't yours after all. February1948
  • Score: 2

3:44pm Tue 10 Jun 14

carlinste says...

I trust this Condor lot as much as I trust our council - zilch !!
I trust this Condor lot as much as I trust our council - zilch !! carlinste
  • Score: 0

4:20pm Tue 10 Jun 14

siratb says...

JamesYoung wrote:
siratb wrote:
Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats.

To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO.

The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none.

No brainer.
I think you're wrong, actually (in part at least).
I think CaughtJester is spot on. Before you can make a decision you need to have a detailed understanding of the benefit to the town. It is probably in excess of the £225,000 berthing fees, but it is probably nowhere near the £7m a year i've seen quoted in the past.When you have this, you have to look at the opportunity cost: i.e., how much you are losing by retaining Condor.
For example, 100 additional marina berths would bring in around £200k a year. Visiting yacht crews are forever complaining about the lack of facilities. Double the number of visitor moorings and you would certainly get some benefit - unlike ferry passengers, yacht crews do spend money in the town. Likewise, what could £10m be used for on the Peninsula itself. I have long argued that the Pavilion should be pulled down and the resultant savings used to provide free parking from September to April (which it would). I've also argued that we need an all weather attraction and a more creative investment than the Wey First (i think that's what they are called) has proposed. For example, an all weather water park could probably be built for £10m (i did some research on this and it looks like £10m would admittedly be towards the lower end). This would easily pay for itself since (i) the old Marsh Road pool could be closed and savings made there, with people then spending money at the new place and (ii) councils that have invested in these have reported a positive return. The Alexandra Gardens could also be bulldozed and replaced with a smaller theatre and, if desired, the entire sea front could then be pedestrianised or maybe some kind of tramway added.
So personally, i don't think its a "no brainer" at all. You say there is always the possibility of attracting new business but what do you mean by that? The port isn't big enough for cruise liners, so they are out. Commercial traffic will always go to Portland Port, because Weymouth is too small these days. That leaves other ferry companies. With average margins of about 7% and shrinking, no other company is going to move to Weymouth to compete with Condor in Poole.
All weather water park would get my vote :) But don't forget that a good proportion of people crossing on the Condor arrive in Weymouth the night before, and if you said an average room rate of 50 quid then you need to take that into account too. Losing Condor will lose this income to the town.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]siratb[/bold] wrote: Well it is a simple decision. Either Weymouth wants to keep a top port facility, and spends 10 million doing so, it is doesn't and lets it go, saving 10 million and then the harbour only becomes suitable for sailing, fishing and recreational boats. To me it is a sound investment. It is not like we have to attract a new client to the area, Condor will STAY here if these works are done. If they are not then they will GO. The harbour should be maintained as a working harbour or completely let go to recreational / fishing activities. If these works are done, there is always the possibility of attracting further business to the area, without these works there is none. No brainer.[/p][/quote]I think you're wrong, actually (in part at least). I think CaughtJester is spot on. Before you can make a decision you need to have a detailed understanding of the benefit to the town. It is probably in excess of the £225,000 berthing fees, but it is probably nowhere near the £7m a year i've seen quoted in the past.When you have this, you have to look at the opportunity cost: i.e., how much you are losing by retaining Condor. For example, 100 additional marina berths would bring in around £200k a year. Visiting yacht crews are forever complaining about the lack of facilities. Double the number of visitor moorings and you would certainly get some benefit - unlike ferry passengers, yacht crews do spend money in the town. Likewise, what could £10m be used for on the Peninsula itself. I have long argued that the Pavilion should be pulled down and the resultant savings used to provide free parking from September to April (which it would). I've also argued that we need an all weather attraction and a more creative investment than the Wey First (i think that's what they are called) has proposed. For example, an all weather water park could probably be built for £10m (i did some research on this and it looks like £10m would admittedly be towards the lower end). This would easily pay for itself since (i) the old Marsh Road pool could be closed and savings made there, with people then spending money at the new place and (ii) councils that have invested in these have reported a positive return. The Alexandra Gardens could also be bulldozed and replaced with a smaller theatre and, if desired, the entire sea front could then be pedestrianised or maybe some kind of tramway added. So personally, i don't think its a "no brainer" at all. You say there is always the possibility of attracting new business but what do you mean by that? The port isn't big enough for cruise liners, so they are out. Commercial traffic will always go to Portland Port, because Weymouth is too small these days. That leaves other ferry companies. With average margins of about 7% and shrinking, no other company is going to move to Weymouth to compete with Condor in Poole.[/p][/quote]All weather water park would get my vote :) But don't forget that a good proportion of people crossing on the Condor arrive in Weymouth the night before, and if you said an average room rate of 50 quid then you need to take that into account too. Losing Condor will lose this income to the town. siratb
  • Score: 4

4:41pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

MrTomSmith wrote:
Everyone keeps saying the 10 million would be better spent on blah blah blah but where is this 10 Million? Oh that 10 Million that we are being asked for, but haven't got, that 10 Million. Stop rattling on about what we can do with 10 Million, wasting your time.
10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive why are you banging on about finding 10 million, its not that hard to do! Maybe if the big guns at the top of the council took a pay cut from their drastically highly overpaid salaries the money would be easier to replenish!

IF condor did go, I hope all those saying its a waste of money wont complain when their council tax goes up due to loss of revenue from condor!
[quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: Everyone keeps saying the 10 million would be better spent on blah blah blah but where is this 10 Million? Oh that 10 Million that we are being asked for, but haven't got, that 10 Million. Stop rattling on about what we can do with 10 Million, wasting your time.[/p][/quote]10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive why are you banging on about finding 10 million, its not that hard to do! Maybe if the big guns at the top of the council took a pay cut from their drastically highly overpaid salaries the money would be easier to replenish! IF condor did go, I hope all those saying its a waste of money wont complain when their council tax goes up due to loss of revenue from condor! sandman223
  • Score: 12

4:50pm Tue 10 Jun 14

AndyBlackwood says...

"10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive"
If only that were true!
The total amount of council tax for the whole of the forthcoming year is projected to be £5.6 million.
"10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive" If only that were true! The total amount of council tax for the whole of the forthcoming year is projected to be £5.6 million. AndyBlackwood
  • Score: 1

5:16pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

AndyBlackwood wrote:
"10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive"
If only that were true!
The total amount of council tax for the whole of the forthcoming year is projected to be £5.6 million.
So on that basis, if 10,000 homes paid council tax at 46 pounds a month it would generate 5.6 million over a year. Absolutely rubbish! How about you pay back some of your vastly over paid wages that you have not earned a penny of and pay that towards the 10million?
[quote][p][bold]AndyBlackwood[/bold] wrote: "10 million is probably about a months worth of council tax that the council receive" If only that were true! The total amount of council tax for the whole of the forthcoming year is projected to be £5.6 million.[/p][/quote]So on that basis, if 10,000 homes paid council tax at 46 pounds a month it would generate 5.6 million over a year. Absolutely rubbish! How about you pay back some of your vastly over paid wages that you have not earned a penny of and pay that towards the 10million? sandman223
  • Score: -1

5:26pm Tue 10 Jun 14

AndyBlackwood says...

What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of the council tax you pay goes to Dorset County Council not to WPBC. Out of every £10 council tax you pay, £6.91 goes to DCC, only £1.61 goes to WPBC, £1.09 goes to the Police and 39p to the Fire authority.
What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of the council tax you pay goes to Dorset County Council not to WPBC. Out of every £10 council tax you pay, £6.91 goes to DCC, only £1.61 goes to WPBC, £1.09 goes to the Police and 39p to the Fire authority. AndyBlackwood
  • Score: 3

5:34pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

AndyBlackwood wrote:
What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of the council tax you pay goes to Dorset County Council not to WPBC. Out of every £10 council tax you pay, £6.91 goes to DCC, only £1.61 goes to WPBC, £1.09 goes to the Police and 39p to the Fire authority.
And how many households pay council tax??
[quote][p][bold]AndyBlackwood[/bold] wrote: What you're forgetting is that the vast majority of the council tax you pay goes to Dorset County Council not to WPBC. Out of every £10 council tax you pay, £6.91 goes to DCC, only £1.61 goes to WPBC, £1.09 goes to the Police and 39p to the Fire authority.[/p][/quote]And how many households pay council tax?? sandman223
  • Score: 1

5:37pm Tue 10 Jun 14

AndyBlackwood says...

31,230 with over half of them in the two lowest bands
31,230 with over half of them in the two lowest bands AndyBlackwood
  • Score: 1

5:37pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

Quite frankly, if this council hasnt got 10million to spend I for one would like to know why! Where is my money being spent apart from paying for council staff to sit in an office and not in anyway benefit the community!
Quite frankly, if this council hasnt got 10million to spend I for one would like to know why! Where is my money being spent apart from paying for council staff to sit in an office and not in anyway benefit the community! sandman223
  • Score: 5

5:38pm Tue 10 Jun 14

AndyBlackwood says...

All the details are here if you want to check them out.

https://www.dorsetfo
ryou.com/401538
All the details are here if you want to check them out. https://www.dorsetfo ryou.com/401538 AndyBlackwood
  • Score: -2

5:44pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

AndyBlackwood wrote:
All the details are here if you want to check them out.

https://www.dorsetfo

ryou.com/401538
Does this link tell me how I can choose how my council tax is spent rather than overpaid individuals in an office with no clue on how to better the area? If not i wont bother looking, thanks anyway
[quote][p][bold]AndyBlackwood[/bold] wrote: All the details are here if you want to check them out. https://www.dorsetfo ryou.com/401538[/p][/quote]Does this link tell me how I can choose how my council tax is spent rather than overpaid individuals in an office with no clue on how to better the area? If not i wont bother looking, thanks anyway sandman223
  • Score: 2

8:06pm Tue 10 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

MrTomSmith wrote:
Simon Nicholas wrote:
Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not!
I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there.
They repaired the harbour wall due to the councils lack of maintainance to the harbour, the reason condor pay berthing fees. It was the councils mistake not condors, lets not forget that.
[quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not![/p][/quote]I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there.[/p][/quote]They repaired the harbour wall due to the councils lack of maintainance to the harbour, the reason condor pay berthing fees. It was the councils mistake not condors, lets not forget that. sandman223
  • Score: 13

11:41pm Tue 10 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.
Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos. MrTomSmith
  • Score: -3

11:45pm Tue 10 Jun 14

MrTomSmith says...

sandman223 wrote:
MrTomSmith wrote:
Simon Nicholas wrote:
Get a grip wrote:
So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place.

Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place.


Then we have to add the operational costs to all this

I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.
I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not!
I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there.
They repaired the harbour wall due to the councils lack of maintainance to the harbour, the reason condor pay berthing fees. It was the councils mistake not condors, lets not forget that.
That wasn't the point, you missed the point. Never mind.
[quote][p][bold]sandman223[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Get a grip[/bold] wrote: So now we know that £4 million was spent without any firm agreement in place. Now we are being asked to spend £10 million without an agreement in place. Then we have to add the operational costs to all this I think that it is going to be very hard to convince the ratepayers that this is a good idea.[/p][/quote]I suspect they would have had to have repaired the harbour wall, regardless of whether Condor stayed or not![/p][/quote]I don't believe that for one minute. They repaired the Harbour wall for Condor they would have probably put it out of action rather than repair it if Condor was not there.[/p][/quote]They repaired the harbour wall due to the councils lack of maintainance to the harbour, the reason condor pay berthing fees. It was the councils mistake not condors, lets not forget that.[/p][/quote]That wasn't the point, you missed the point. Never mind. MrTomSmith
  • Score: -1

8:00am Wed 11 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

MrTomSmith wrote:
Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.
Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week!
[quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.[/p][/quote]Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week! JamesYoung
  • Score: -5

9:11am Wed 11 Jun 14

sandman223 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
MrTomSmith wrote:
Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.
Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week!
Good, you could do with one to work out how easily 10 million could be replenished and would be an investment for the area! Or use it to work out how much your council tax would go up to make up for the shortfall in revenue lost by losing condor!
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.[/p][/quote]Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week![/p][/quote]Good, you could do with one to work out how easily 10 million could be replenished and would be an investment for the area! Or use it to work out how much your council tax would go up to make up for the shortfall in revenue lost by losing condor! sandman223
  • Score: 6

12:01pm Wed 11 Jun 14

notweymouth says...

Isn't this what banks used to be for? If it was a good business proposition they would fund it.
Isn't this what banks used to be for? If it was a good business proposition they would fund it. notweymouth
  • Score: 0

12:47pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bob Goulding says...

Looking at existing the timetables, and assuming the new service will run a single return journey five days per week, I estimate (very roughly) that the additional fuel cost of operating from Poole as opposed to Weymouth would be in the region of £650,000 per annum. This is based on running the ship for an additional one hour per round trip at 50% power. That’s about 5 tonnes of fuel at approx £500 per tonne. Actually this number could be even higher. I think Condor should come clean on their projected operating costs (from both ports) before any more taxpayer’s money is appropriated to help boost their profits.
Looking at existing the timetables, and assuming the new service will run a single return journey five days per week, I estimate (very roughly) that the additional fuel cost of operating from Poole as opposed to Weymouth would be in the region of £650,000 per annum. This is based on running the ship for an additional one hour per round trip at 50% power. That’s about 5 tonnes of fuel at approx £500 per tonne. Actually this number could be even higher. I think Condor should come clean on their projected operating costs (from both ports) before any more taxpayer’s money is appropriated to help boost their profits. Bob Goulding
  • Score: 1

2:49pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and appreciate that Weymouth is in an incredibly enviable position for a town of its size in being a terminal for an important ferry link. Most other towns in the UK would rip your hands off for something like this.

In addition, what Condor are offering Weymouth is the role of sole UK fast craft exit port to the Channel Islands, on a long term basis, and with it guarantee of a high profile throughout the UK and France where Condor advertise. And with that brings not only the customers that currently travel from Weymouth, but all the Poole ones as well. This in turn leads to more rooms occupied in the town, with all the associated tourist spend that brings. Also bigger ships need more staff to maintain them, and the charge the council can levy for using the berth would increase as well. Condor would no longer have a need for an administrative base in Poole either, so there would be an opportunity for additional jobs at Weymouth in addition.

Even if Condor did subsequently leave Weymouth in the future, the town will still be left with a first class "roll on roll off facility" capable of coping with ships of any size.

This opportunity therefore cannot be missed - the money needed, depreciated over the long life expectation of Berth 1, is not great in the scheme of things.

Certainly, this would be looked at as a lost opportunity by historians in the future if this offer was not grasped with both hands.

Its ok people on this site moaning about the decline of the town, but when opportunities like this (which come around once in a lifetime), do come along, they are met with nothing but negativity.

You never know what you have lost until its gone................
..

Simon N.
I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and appreciate that Weymouth is in an incredibly enviable position for a town of its size in being a terminal for an important ferry link. Most other towns in the UK would rip your hands off for something like this. In addition, what Condor are offering Weymouth is the role of sole UK fast craft exit port to the Channel Islands, on a long term basis, and with it guarantee of a high profile throughout the UK and France where Condor advertise. And with that brings not only the customers that currently travel from Weymouth, but all the Poole ones as well. This in turn leads to more rooms occupied in the town, with all the associated tourist spend that brings. Also bigger ships need more staff to maintain them, and the charge the council can levy for using the berth would increase as well. Condor would no longer have a need for an administrative base in Poole either, so there would be an opportunity for additional jobs at Weymouth in addition. Even if Condor did subsequently leave Weymouth in the future, the town will still be left with a first class "roll on roll off facility" capable of coping with ships of any size. This opportunity therefore cannot be missed - the money needed, depreciated over the long life expectation of Berth 1, is not great in the scheme of things. Certainly, this would be looked at as a lost opportunity by historians in the future if this offer was not grasped with both hands. Its ok people on this site moaning about the decline of the town, but when opportunities like this (which come around once in a lifetime), do come along, they are met with nothing but negativity. You never know what you have lost until its gone................ .. Simon N. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 3

3:46pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bob Goulding says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and appreciate that Weymouth is in an incredibly enviable position for a town of its size in being a terminal for an important ferry link. Most other towns in the UK would rip your hands off for something like this.

In addition, what Condor are offering Weymouth is the role of sole UK fast craft exit port to the Channel Islands, on a long term basis, and with it guarantee of a high profile throughout the UK and France where Condor advertise. And with that brings not only the customers that currently travel from Weymouth, but all the Poole ones as well. This in turn leads to more rooms occupied in the town, with all the associated tourist spend that brings. Also bigger ships need more staff to maintain them, and the charge the council can levy for using the berth would increase as well. Condor would no longer have a need for an administrative base in Poole either, so there would be an opportunity for additional jobs at Weymouth in addition.

Even if Condor did subsequently leave Weymouth in the future, the town will still be left with a first class "roll on roll off facility" capable of coping with ships of any size.

This opportunity therefore cannot be missed - the money needed, depreciated over the long life expectation of Berth 1, is not great in the scheme of things.

Certainly, this would be looked at as a lost opportunity by historians in the future if this offer was not grasped with both hands.

Its ok people on this site moaning about the decline of the town, but when opportunities like this (which come around once in a lifetime), do come along, they are met with nothing but negativity.

You never know what you have lost until its gone................

..

Simon N.
As far as I can see there is nothing in Condor's proposal that suggests an increase in passenger volumes on these routes. In fact, the new ship represents a reduction in overall capacity and, assuming the States grant Condor Ferries their new licences, we have to conclude that the reduced volumes meet their expectations also.

The principle beneficiary of any consolidation of facilities in Weymouth would be Condor. They would only be operating one ship on these routes (although I assume they must have some sort of back-up plan) which is only 20% larger in capacity terms than one of the existing vessels. I very much doubt that there would be a proportional increase in maintenance costs and, with only one ship to maintain, I would expect an overall cost reduction.

If we were to go along with Condor’s plans, and they did subsequently leave Weymouth, what on earth would we do a first class "roll on roll off facility"? It would become an expensive white elephant.
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and appreciate that Weymouth is in an incredibly enviable position for a town of its size in being a terminal for an important ferry link. Most other towns in the UK would rip your hands off for something like this. In addition, what Condor are offering Weymouth is the role of sole UK fast craft exit port to the Channel Islands, on a long term basis, and with it guarantee of a high profile throughout the UK and France where Condor advertise. And with that brings not only the customers that currently travel from Weymouth, but all the Poole ones as well. This in turn leads to more rooms occupied in the town, with all the associated tourist spend that brings. Also bigger ships need more staff to maintain them, and the charge the council can levy for using the berth would increase as well. Condor would no longer have a need for an administrative base in Poole either, so there would be an opportunity for additional jobs at Weymouth in addition. Even if Condor did subsequently leave Weymouth in the future, the town will still be left with a first class "roll on roll off facility" capable of coping with ships of any size. This opportunity therefore cannot be missed - the money needed, depreciated over the long life expectation of Berth 1, is not great in the scheme of things. Certainly, this would be looked at as a lost opportunity by historians in the future if this offer was not grasped with both hands. Its ok people on this site moaning about the decline of the town, but when opportunities like this (which come around once in a lifetime), do come along, they are met with nothing but negativity. You never know what you have lost until its gone................ .. Simon N.[/p][/quote]As far as I can see there is nothing in Condor's proposal that suggests an increase in passenger volumes on these routes. In fact, the new ship represents a reduction in overall capacity and, assuming the States grant Condor Ferries their new licences, we have to conclude that the reduced volumes meet their expectations also. The principle beneficiary of any consolidation of facilities in Weymouth would be Condor. They would only be operating one ship on these routes (although I assume they must have some sort of back-up plan) which is only 20% larger in capacity terms than one of the existing vessels. I very much doubt that there would be a proportional increase in maintenance costs and, with only one ship to maintain, I would expect an overall cost reduction. If we were to go along with Condor’s plans, and they did subsequently leave Weymouth, what on earth would we do a first class "roll on roll off facility"? It would become an expensive white elephant. Bob Goulding
  • Score: -1

4:07pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now.

Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year.

Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.
Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 1

4:47pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Bob Goulding says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now.

Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year.

Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.
Operating two sailings a day with one ship, and allowing for that fact that St Helier's harbour is not always navigable, is a big ask. The new ship is not faster it is just bigger and there is no guarantee that bookings will increase to match capacity. Condor may be running two services per day at peak times this year but that is because they have two ships.

The bottom line is that, whichever way you look at it, Condor stand to save/make a lot of money by closing their Poole operations and basing the new ship in Weymouth. Condor should spend some of that money upgrading the port facilities to match their operational needs.

£10,000,000 would buy a hell of a lot of crumbs and that is all we would get.
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.[/p][/quote]Operating two sailings a day with one ship, and allowing for that fact that St Helier's harbour is not always navigable, is a big ask. The new ship is not faster it is just bigger and there is no guarantee that bookings will increase to match capacity. Condor may be running two services per day at peak times this year but that is because they have two ships. The bottom line is that, whichever way you look at it, Condor stand to save/make a lot of money by closing their Poole operations and basing the new ship in Weymouth. Condor should spend some of that money upgrading the port facilities to match their operational needs. £10,000,000 would buy a hell of a lot of crumbs and that is all we would get. Bob Goulding
  • Score: 1

5:29pm Wed 11 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

Bob Goulding wrote:
Simon Nicholas wrote:
Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now.

Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year.

Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.
Operating two sailings a day with one ship, and allowing for that fact that St Helier's harbour is not always navigable, is a big ask. The new ship is not faster it is just bigger and there is no guarantee that bookings will increase to match capacity. Condor may be running two services per day at peak times this year but that is because they have two ships.

The bottom line is that, whichever way you look at it, Condor stand to save/make a lot of money by closing their Poole operations and basing the new ship in Weymouth. Condor should spend some of that money upgrading the port facilities to match their operational needs.

£10,000,000 would buy a hell of a lot of crumbs and that is all we would get.
I think we will have to disagree Bob!

Yes the new boat is no faster, its actually marginally slower in fact, but not to the detriment of being able to make two sailings per day.

Condor have regularly made two fast cat departures per day out of Weymouth over the years, it was a daily occurrence until 1997, and most recently when a fault occurred with one of the vessels during late Summer / early Autumn 2013. They got around that by cancelling all sailings from Poole, and operating the one remaining serviceable boat from here twice a day to compensate.

They will actually be operating three crossings from the UK on peak Saturdays this year, one from Poole and two from Weymouth.

Yes there are tidal limitations at Jersey, but careful planning has always ensured multiple departures from there per day,

Condor have hinted that they would be willing to make a contribution, although I suspect this Is likely to involve the funding of replacement terminal buildings and other associated infrastructure, rather than a direct offer of cash.

Cheers
Simon N.
[quote][p][bold]Bob Goulding[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.[/p][/quote]Operating two sailings a day with one ship, and allowing for that fact that St Helier's harbour is not always navigable, is a big ask. The new ship is not faster it is just bigger and there is no guarantee that bookings will increase to match capacity. Condor may be running two services per day at peak times this year but that is because they have two ships. The bottom line is that, whichever way you look at it, Condor stand to save/make a lot of money by closing their Poole operations and basing the new ship in Weymouth. Condor should spend some of that money upgrading the port facilities to match their operational needs. £10,000,000 would buy a hell of a lot of crumbs and that is all we would get.[/p][/quote]I think we will have to disagree Bob! Yes the new boat is no faster, its actually marginally slower in fact, but not to the detriment of being able to make two sailings per day. Condor have regularly made two fast cat departures per day out of Weymouth over the years, it was a daily occurrence until 1997, and most recently when a fault occurred with one of the vessels during late Summer / early Autumn 2013. They got around that by cancelling all sailings from Poole, and operating the one remaining serviceable boat from here twice a day to compensate. They will actually be operating three crossings from the UK on peak Saturdays this year, one from Poole and two from Weymouth. Yes there are tidal limitations at Jersey, but careful planning has always ensured multiple departures from there per day, Condor have hinted that they would be willing to make a contribution, although I suspect this Is likely to involve the funding of replacement terminal buildings and other associated infrastructure, rather than a direct offer of cash. Cheers Simon N. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 2

8:54pm Wed 11 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.
Why is talk of a marina pie in the sky? The council already own one, one has been built at Portland just recently and they are known money spinners.
Why is talk of a water park pie in the sky? There's already one in Poole (Tower Park) that was funded through private investment.
If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got. Weymouth is going downhill fast and needs some radical thinking to reverse it. The high street is fading fast all over the country, which means retail jobs will go in Weymouth. If we do nothing then tourisms share of employment will grow as other areas shrink (note: tourism jobs are largely seasonal).
What you seem to miss is that there is a fair chance there'll be a derelict ferry terminal sooner or later anyway. When i look at that whole harbour side, and the Peninsula itself, i just see wasted opportunity.
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.[/p][/quote]Why is talk of a marina pie in the sky? The council already own one, one has been built at Portland just recently and they are known money spinners. Why is talk of a water park pie in the sky? There's already one in Poole (Tower Park) that was funded through private investment. If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got. Weymouth is going downhill fast and needs some radical thinking to reverse it. The high street is fading fast all over the country, which means retail jobs will go in Weymouth. If we do nothing then tourisms share of employment will grow as other areas shrink (note: tourism jobs are largely seasonal). What you seem to miss is that there is a fair chance there'll be a derelict ferry terminal sooner or later anyway. When i look at that whole harbour side, and the Peninsula itself, i just see wasted opportunity. JamesYoung
  • Score: 3

8:56pm Wed 11 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

JamesYoung wrote:
Simon Nicholas wrote: Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.
Why is talk of a marina pie in the sky? The council already own one, one has been built at Portland just recently and they are known money spinners. Why is talk of a water park pie in the sky? There's already one in Poole (Tower Park) that was funded through private investment. If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got. Weymouth is going downhill fast and needs some radical thinking to reverse it. The high street is fading fast all over the country, which means retail jobs will go in Weymouth. If we do nothing then tourisms share of employment will grow as other areas shrink (note: tourism jobs are largely seasonal). What you seem to miss is that there is a fair chance there'll be a derelict ferry terminal sooner or later anyway. When i look at that whole harbour side, and the Peninsula itself, i just see wasted opportunity.
Oh and PS: the council marina already has a two year waiting list.
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: Whilst I apprecaite there will be an overall drop in total passenger capacity, it will still mean a big increase for Weymouth - 1000 people and 250 cars, compared with 700 people and 150 cars now. Operating out of Weymouth will also allow two sailings per day at busy times, such as peak summer Saturdays - they are doing this on several Saturdays this year. Whats the alternative, a derelict ferrry terminal? certainly thoughts of marinas and water parks really are pie in the sky! There ain`t no money in the private sector for that at the moment, and even if there were, the locals would block it and object at every stage.[/p][/quote]Why is talk of a marina pie in the sky? The council already own one, one has been built at Portland just recently and they are known money spinners. Why is talk of a water park pie in the sky? There's already one in Poole (Tower Park) that was funded through private investment. If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got. Weymouth is going downhill fast and needs some radical thinking to reverse it. The high street is fading fast all over the country, which means retail jobs will go in Weymouth. If we do nothing then tourisms share of employment will grow as other areas shrink (note: tourism jobs are largely seasonal). What you seem to miss is that there is a fair chance there'll be a derelict ferry terminal sooner or later anyway. When i look at that whole harbour side, and the Peninsula itself, i just see wasted opportunity.[/p][/quote]Oh and PS: the council marina already has a two year waiting list. JamesYoung
  • Score: 2

9:36am Thu 12 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

I don`t disagree with much of what you say James.

It remains my view however that all options should be explored for retaining the harbour as a ferry terminal - having a link span at berth 1 (the widest part of the harbour) will open up strategic opportunities in the future that currently do not exist, even if Condor did eventually leave. Its important to remember that the world and its needs are constantly changing - just because the ferry industry appears to be in decline now, does not mean that it is always will be. After all, Dr Beeching closed thousands of miles of railway in the 1960s, which was the right decision at the time, but in hindsight was not - long term strategy has to play a part in decision making.

I do conceed however that some of the ferry area could be used for tourist purposes - the problem you have however is that its probably too small for a water based theme park, especially as any private sector developer would need to build in considerable space for car parking as well. Building on land reclaimed from the sea may be deemed as too big a risk as well.

Plus, could Weymouth cope with even more cars on the seafront?

Simon N.
I don`t disagree with much of what you say James. It remains my view however that all options should be explored for retaining the harbour as a ferry terminal - having a link span at berth 1 (the widest part of the harbour) will open up strategic opportunities in the future that currently do not exist, even if Condor did eventually leave. Its important to remember that the world and its needs are constantly changing - just because the ferry industry appears to be in decline now, does not mean that it is always will be. After all, Dr Beeching closed thousands of miles of railway in the 1960s, which was the right decision at the time, but in hindsight was not - long term strategy has to play a part in decision making. I do conceed however that some of the ferry area could be used for tourist purposes - the problem you have however is that its probably too small for a water based theme park, especially as any private sector developer would need to build in considerable space for car parking as well. Building on land reclaimed from the sea may be deemed as too big a risk as well. Plus, could Weymouth cope with even more cars on the seafront? Simon N. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: -1

11:45am Fri 13 Jun 14

Mindblower says...

Many of my family members travel to France several times a year. We have ageing relatives there.

They all use Condor from Poole during May to October and during the winter months fly from Southampton. (less than hour flight time)
They all gave up using Weymouth a couple of years ago. Why - well do you really want to have to travel to a port that is out on a limb and absolutely diabolical to get to?

Get with it Weymouth it's not Condor that's your problem but your location and the access to it. Your town has a very limited future until that problem is sorted.

One other point - In truth how many people actually stay in Weymouth guest houses/hotels over night whilst awaiting the ferry - very very few I suspect.
Many of my family members travel to France several times a year. We have ageing relatives there. They all use Condor from Poole during May to October and during the winter months fly from Southampton. (less than hour flight time) They all gave up using Weymouth a couple of years ago. Why - well do you really want to have to travel to a port that is out on a limb and absolutely diabolical to get to? Get with it Weymouth it's not Condor that's your problem but your location and the access to it. Your town has a very limited future until that problem is sorted. One other point - In truth how many people actually stay in Weymouth guest houses/hotels over night whilst awaiting the ferry - very very few I suspect. Mindblower
  • Score: -2

4:34pm Fri 13 Jun 14

Simon Nicholas says...

Mindblower,

Seveal points come to mind after reading your comment.

Firslly, I presume you live in an area where Poole and Southampton are withn easy reach - in which case, I conceed that Weymouth is not convenient for your purposes, in the same way that Poole is not good for those that live in this area. In addtion, for many parts of the West Couintry,,South Wales, or the Midlands, Weymouth is far easier to get to than Poole.

Condor don`t share your view on Weymouth`s locaton being an issue either as they fully intend to MOVE ALL THEIR SAILINGS here, and abandon Poole completely, as long as funding can be found for the berth improvement.

As for the people that stay in Weymouth guest houses before using the ferry, I have no figures to hand, but would suggest from their vocal views on the issue, that usage is greater than you suspect.

Cheers
Simon N.
Mindblower, Seveal points come to mind after reading your comment. Firslly, I presume you live in an area where Poole and Southampton are withn easy reach - in which case, I conceed that Weymouth is not convenient for your purposes, in the same way that Poole is not good for those that live in this area. In addtion, for many parts of the West Couintry,,South Wales, or the Midlands, Weymouth is far easier to get to than Poole. Condor don`t share your view on Weymouth`s locaton being an issue either as they fully intend to MOVE ALL THEIR SAILINGS here, and abandon Poole completely, as long as funding can be found for the berth improvement. As for the people that stay in Weymouth guest houses before using the ferry, I have no figures to hand, but would suggest from their vocal views on the issue, that usage is greater than you suspect. Cheers Simon N. Simon Nicholas
  • Score: 0

9:59pm Fri 13 Jun 14

trymybest says...

sandman223 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
MrTomSmith wrote:
Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.
Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week!
Good, you could do with one to work out how easily 10 million could be replenished and would be an investment for the area! Or use it to work out how much your council tax would go up to make up for the shortfall in revenue lost by losing condor!
The first time Condor left Weymouth the council said the same thing you have just said the "council tax would have to go up to make up the short fall in revenue lost by losing Condor" and it did, that was over twenty years ago and we are still paying the extra today(even though Condor came back shortly after), the council must be well over £10 million's of over payment in the bank. How many time do YOU want the council tax payer subsidise Condor.
[quote][p][bold]sandman223[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MrTomSmith[/bold] wrote: Here you go Sandman 108/1190 Thats the code for a new Calculator at Argos.[/p][/quote]Haha! That has to be the best comment of the week![/p][/quote]Good, you could do with one to work out how easily 10 million could be replenished and would be an investment for the area! Or use it to work out how much your council tax would go up to make up for the shortfall in revenue lost by losing condor![/p][/quote]The first time Condor left Weymouth the council said the same thing you have just said the "council tax would have to go up to make up the short fall in revenue lost by losing Condor" and it did, that was over twenty years ago and we are still paying the extra today(even though Condor came back shortly after), the council must be well over £10 million's of over payment in the bank. How many time do YOU want the council tax payer subsidise Condor. trymybest
  • Score: 0

9:34am Sat 14 Jun 14

AlwaysQuestion says...

An awful lot of nonsense in the above comments. Condor can sail from any port they choose. Weymouth does not have to spend this money but it will lose the Condor contract if it doesn't. Condor has no obligation to stay and the road links to the terminal are terrible. Weymouth does however have one trump card and one reason why Condor would like to stay. The trip to the Channel Islands is about 40 minutes quicker than from Poole.

This is not a subsidy to Condor it is simply business, something that few contributors to this board seem to understand. It is up to the Council to determine whether or not it is a good investment. If it isn't, don't do it. Simples!
An awful lot of nonsense in the above comments. Condor can sail from any port they choose. Weymouth does not have to spend this money but it will lose the Condor contract if it doesn't. Condor has no obligation to stay and the road links to the terminal are terrible. Weymouth does however have one trump card and one reason why Condor would like to stay. The trip to the Channel Islands is about 40 minutes quicker than from Poole. This is not a subsidy to Condor it is simply business, something that few contributors to this board seem to understand. It is up to the Council to determine whether or not it is a good investment. If it isn't, don't do it. Simples! AlwaysQuestion
  • Score: 3

11:15am Sat 14 Jun 14

trymybest says...

When the council put up the council tax when Condor first left to compensate for lost of revenue then that's what you call a cheek, but as the council have never stopped receiving that increase then it is a subsidy for having Condor here or not..
When the council put up the council tax when Condor first left to compensate for lost of revenue then that's what you call a cheek, but as the council have never stopped receiving that increase then it is a subsidy for having Condor here or not.. trymybest
  • Score: -1

1:54pm Sun 15 Jun 14

Parkstreetshufle says...

Really - the council can't afford to do half the maintenance work that needs doing let alone finding millions for harbor work.
Really - the council can't afford to do half the maintenance work that needs doing let alone finding millions for harbor work. Parkstreetshufle
  • Score: -1

9:52am Mon 16 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

Simon Nicholas wrote:
I don`t disagree with much of what you say James.

It remains my view however that all options should be explored for retaining the harbour as a ferry terminal - having a link span at berth 1 (the widest part of the harbour) will open up strategic opportunities in the future that currently do not exist, even if Condor did eventually leave. Its important to remember that the world and its needs are constantly changing - just because the ferry industry appears to be in decline now, does not mean that it is always will be. After all, Dr Beeching closed thousands of miles of railway in the 1960s, which was the right decision at the time, but in hindsight was not - long term strategy has to play a part in decision making.

I do conceed however that some of the ferry area could be used for tourist purposes - the problem you have however is that its probably too small for a water based theme park, especially as any private sector developer would need to build in considerable space for car parking as well. Building on land reclaimed from the sea may be deemed as too big a risk as well.

Plus, could Weymouth cope with even more cars on the seafront?

Simon N.
Fair comments. As you say, some numbers are needed :-).
[quote][p][bold]Simon Nicholas[/bold] wrote: I don`t disagree with much of what you say James. It remains my view however that all options should be explored for retaining the harbour as a ferry terminal - having a link span at berth 1 (the widest part of the harbour) will open up strategic opportunities in the future that currently do not exist, even if Condor did eventually leave. Its important to remember that the world and its needs are constantly changing - just because the ferry industry appears to be in decline now, does not mean that it is always will be. After all, Dr Beeching closed thousands of miles of railway in the 1960s, which was the right decision at the time, but in hindsight was not - long term strategy has to play a part in decision making. I do conceed however that some of the ferry area could be used for tourist purposes - the problem you have however is that its probably too small for a water based theme park, especially as any private sector developer would need to build in considerable space for car parking as well. Building on land reclaimed from the sea may be deemed as too big a risk as well. Plus, could Weymouth cope with even more cars on the seafront? Simon N.[/p][/quote]Fair comments. As you say, some numbers are needed :-). JamesYoung
  • Score: 1

10:39am Mon 16 Jun 14

Bob Goulding says...

AlwaysQuestion wrote:
An awful lot of nonsense in the above comments. Condor can sail from any port they choose. Weymouth does not have to spend this money but it will lose the Condor contract if it doesn't. Condor has no obligation to stay and the road links to the terminal are terrible. Weymouth does however have one trump card and one reason why Condor would like to stay. The trip to the Channel Islands is about 40 minutes quicker than from Poole.

This is not a subsidy to Condor it is simply business, something that few contributors to this board seem to understand. It is up to the Council to determine whether or not it is a good investment. If it isn't, don't do it. Simples!
Actually Condor do not have many choices and Weymouth is by far the cheaper of the current options (in excess of £1,000,000 pounds per annum I would estimate). Why shouldn't Condor make the investment in upgrading berth 1 as it would make good business sense for them? Call their bluff W&PBC.
[quote][p][bold]AlwaysQuestion[/bold] wrote: An awful lot of nonsense in the above comments. Condor can sail from any port they choose. Weymouth does not have to spend this money but it will lose the Condor contract if it doesn't. Condor has no obligation to stay and the road links to the terminal are terrible. Weymouth does however have one trump card and one reason why Condor would like to stay. The trip to the Channel Islands is about 40 minutes quicker than from Poole. This is not a subsidy to Condor it is simply business, something that few contributors to this board seem to understand. It is up to the Council to determine whether or not it is a good investment. If it isn't, don't do it. Simples![/p][/quote]Actually Condor do not have many choices and Weymouth is by far the cheaper of the current options (in excess of £1,000,000 pounds per annum I would estimate). Why shouldn't Condor make the investment in upgrading berth 1 as it would make good business sense for them? Call their bluff W&PBC. Bob Goulding
  • Score: -1

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