Earlier closing for Weymouth pubs cuts bad behaviour

Earlier closing for Weymouth pubs cuts bad behaviour

Earlier closing for Weymouth pubs cuts bad behaviour

First published in News
Last updated
Dorset Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Trainee Reporter

TIME is being called on yobs in Weymouth after a successful early closing scheme.

Business owners claim anti-social behaviour has reduced after late-night bars have shut their doors earlier.

A number of Weymouth pubs and clubs voluntarily agreed in January to stop the sale of alcohol at 5am instead of 7am.

The six-month pilot aimed to prevent the crossover between night-time revellers leaving pubs and clubs, and families enjoying the seafront in the early morning.

It followed calls last year to end Weymouth’s 24 hour drinking culture after a series of violent incidents.

Keith Treggiden, chairman of Weymouth Pubwatch and manager of the Rendezvous nightclub, said the number of anti-social behaviour incidents had decreased.

He said: “The only way we’ve been able to track that is by talking to the bar owners concerned.

“Incidents in their venues and outside their venues have dropped.”

Mr Treggiden said he understood it had been a trouble-free weekend, which saw many venues screen England’s first World Cup match.

Other premises that signed up as part of the scheme include The Nook, The Lazy Lizard, Actors, Dolce Vita, Goldfingers, Dusk, Tuatara-Bar/The Closet.

Mr Treggiden said they would be continuing with the scheme but alluded to the problem presented by late opening fast food restaurants which have kept people on the streets.

He said: “There are fast food restaurants in Weymouth that have not closed their doors at the same time as the bars.”

Butcher Dennis Spurr called for action to be taken last year after anti-social incidents regularly occurred in the early hours.

Mr Spurr, who owns the Fantastic Sausage Factory, said there had been a positive reaction since the pilot scheme’s introduction.

He said: “I would say it’s made a vast improvement. It’s so different in the town.

“The town was always full of people who had too much to drink. There would be fights and all sorts of things. It doesn’t seem to happen at all now.”

Pubs and clubs in the scheme are expected to finish alcohol sales by 5am and have their premises cleared by 5.15am.

Mr Spurr added: “I couldn’t really see the need shutting any earlier than that. These pubs do have businesses to run.”

Weymouth and Portland Borough Council has been working in partnership with Dorset Police and Public Health Dorset on the the early closure scheme.

The council is responsible for issuing licences for premises to sell alcohol.

Community safety spokesman Cllr Mike Goodman said: “We would like to praise the responsible actions of the pubs and clubs which have signed up to the scheme.

“This is showing a commitment from licensees and statutory organisations to ensure Weymouth is an enjoyable and safe place to go out at night.

“Those involved voluntarily reduced their opening hours which we hope will reduce anti-social behaviour in the town centre at night, but also ensure our night-time economy remains vibrant.”

Inspector Pete Browning of Weymouth Police said: “It’s refreshing to see many premises taking this voluntary step to help reduce anti-social behaviour in the area, and should be commended for their encouraging action in protecting their community.”

Comments (20)

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7:38am Mon 16 Jun 14

rosew60 says...

The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late.
The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late. rosew60
  • Score: 46

8:36am Mon 16 Jun 14

PHonnor says...

rosew60 wrote:
The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late.
If everywhere closed at the same time then everyone congregates on Westham road for take away and taxi, see many a fight there. What I would suggest is a staggered closing time hourly from 2am to 5am so reduces the amount of people on the streets at the same time, thus trouble.
[quote][p][bold]rosew60[/bold] wrote: The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late.[/p][/quote]If everywhere closed at the same time then everyone congregates on Westham road for take away and taxi, see many a fight there. What I would suggest is a staggered closing time hourly from 2am to 5am so reduces the amount of people on the streets at the same time, thus trouble. PHonnor
  • Score: 5

9:44am Mon 16 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

PHonnor wrote:
rosew60 wrote:
The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late.
If everywhere closed at the same time then everyone congregates on Westham road for take away and taxi, see many a fight there. What I would suggest is a staggered closing time hourly from 2am to 5am so reduces the amount of people on the streets at the same time, thus trouble.
That seems sensible, but then if you were a club goer, you'd pick the best value for money - i.e., the club that stays open the longest. So staggered closing would naturally favour those that stayed open the longest - ergo, no club owner would sign up for it.
Personally i'm with Rose, but maybe 3am would be a compromise. I'm not sure that staying open later earns anybody any extra money anyway, since people just tend to go to the pub now at 9pm or later rather than 7pm as they did before 24 hour opening was introduced.
It would indeed tip everybody out into Westham Road at the same time, but this might actually be a good thing - the police could be there in force to stop trouble and within an hour, everyone would have dispersed and the police wouldn't need to be patrolling.
[quote][p][bold]PHonnor[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rosew60[/bold] wrote: The sale of alcohol should be stopped by 2am there is no need for the pubs and clubs to be opened so late.[/p][/quote]If everywhere closed at the same time then everyone congregates on Westham road for take away and taxi, see many a fight there. What I would suggest is a staggered closing time hourly from 2am to 5am so reduces the amount of people on the streets at the same time, thus trouble.[/p][/quote]That seems sensible, but then if you were a club goer, you'd pick the best value for money - i.e., the club that stays open the longest. So staggered closing would naturally favour those that stayed open the longest - ergo, no club owner would sign up for it. Personally i'm with Rose, but maybe 3am would be a compromise. I'm not sure that staying open later earns anybody any extra money anyway, since people just tend to go to the pub now at 9pm or later rather than 7pm as they did before 24 hour opening was introduced. It would indeed tip everybody out into Westham Road at the same time, but this might actually be a good thing - the police could be there in force to stop trouble and within an hour, everyone would have dispersed and the police wouldn't need to be patrolling. JamesYoung
  • Score: 18

10:18am Mon 16 Jun 14

Harpya Orkinus says...

Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !!
Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !! Harpya Orkinus
  • Score: -7

11:03am Mon 16 Jun 14

Bob Goulding says...

Harpya Orkinus wrote:
Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !!
In 1963 you could have 10 pints of bitter and a portion of fish and chips on the way home and still have change out of a pound. Happy days!
[quote][p][bold]Harpya Orkinus[/bold] wrote: Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !![/p][/quote]In 1963 you could have 10 pints of bitter and a portion of fish and chips on the way home and still have change out of a pound. Happy days! Bob Goulding
  • Score: 10

11:17am Mon 16 Jun 14

Hippyhooker says...

Regarding the comments about everybody ending up in Westham Rd that is correct, JamesYoung is also correct in his comment about the Police, in many other towns the Police will flood the streets funneling the people to where the Police want them to go (normally a Taxi rank) and make sure no trouble occurs en route.
Regarding the comments about everybody ending up in Westham Rd that is correct, JamesYoung is also correct in his comment about the Police, in many other towns the Police will flood the streets funneling the people to where the Police want them to go (normally a Taxi rank) and make sure no trouble occurs en route. Hippyhooker
  • Score: 13

11:54am Mon 16 Jun 14

elloello1980 says...

anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time elloello1980
  • Score: 2

11:57am Mon 16 Jun 14

elloello1980 says...

Harpya Orkinus wrote:
Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !!
really?

are you expecting a course in economics? either way, you may need one before standing by such codswallop
[quote][p][bold]Harpya Orkinus[/bold] wrote: Tut ! Tut ! I don't know what this nonsense is all about - at the time when I might have been in town at night, the public houses all closed at 2300 hrs and the town was as dead as a pickled Herring by midnight. Where on earth do these youngsters get all their money from ?? Presumably they are all employed persons (ie: wage-slaves), and I can't really believe their tories pay them any more today than ours did, proportionately, in the 1960s - or anywhere in between. Or maybe my assumption in 1963, that everyone else must be living entirely on beans on toast, in order to be able to afford to drink to the extent they did, wasn't so very far wide of the mark !![/p][/quote]really? are you expecting a course in economics? either way, you may need one before standing by such codswallop elloello1980
  • Score: 6

12:31pm Mon 16 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia.

Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123

Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia. Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123 Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police. JamesYoung
  • Score: 2

1:21pm Mon 16 Jun 14

elloello1980 says...

JamesYoung wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia.

Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123

Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.
irrelevant James.

My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world.

Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia. Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123 Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.[/p][/quote]irrelevant James. My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world. Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;) elloello1980
  • Score: 4

4:28pm Mon 16 Jun 14

Dorset Guy1 says...

I to was fairly heavy session drinker in the late 60s 70s and early 80s before 24hour drinking took over a year to set foot in a pub in the old 3pm to 5pm closed times and even longer to stay after midnight except the odd special occasion (once a year) if you drink much after 1am you just about wipe out the next day so what is the point Also as has been asked where does the money come from ?Wonga!
I to was fairly heavy session drinker in the late 60s 70s and early 80s before 24hour drinking took over a year to set foot in a pub in the old 3pm to 5pm closed times and even longer to stay after midnight except the odd special occasion (once a year) if you drink much after 1am you just about wipe out the next day so what is the point Also as has been asked where does the money come from ?Wonga! Dorset Guy1
  • Score: 2

6:00pm Mon 16 Jun 14

Chesilmaster says...

Only a compromise, because there is no CCTV operators on after 4 am to direct police / doorstaff to trouble.
Only a compromise, because there is no CCTV operators on after 4 am to direct police / doorstaff to trouble. Chesilmaster
  • Score: 3

6:16pm Mon 16 Jun 14

breamoreboy says...

elloello1980 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia.

Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123

Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.
irrelevant James.

My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world.

Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)
Try telling that to the lad I know with a masters degree in the subject :-)
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia. Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123 Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.[/p][/quote]irrelevant James. My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world. Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)[/p][/quote]Try telling that to the lad I know with a masters degree in the subject :-) breamoreboy
  • Score: -3

8:20pm Mon 16 Jun 14

ksmain says...

elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
Totally agree - there was always trouble at the eateries when everywhere used to shut at 2 in the mornings. Most of it from people already fuelled by alcohol who didn't have the wit or patience to wait their turn in the overcrowded queues from the eateries or the taxi ranks - and it allowed those who had words earlier on to catch up with each other to start the trouble again.

It always staggers me that, on the continent, bars stay open all hours and there is little trouble.

At least with an 'open all hours' policy the troublemakers will stagger their home time. Thing is - most of the trouble-makers are usually the same people, or youngsters who think they can (but can't) take their drink. Most of these people make up 1% of those going out at night - so why limit the other 99% of decent law-abiding people because of the action of the brainless few?
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]Totally agree - there was always trouble at the eateries when everywhere used to shut at 2 in the mornings. Most of it from people already fuelled by alcohol who didn't have the wit or patience to wait their turn in the overcrowded queues from the eateries or the taxi ranks - and it allowed those who had words earlier on to catch up with each other to start the trouble again. It always staggers me that, on the continent, bars stay open all hours and there is little trouble. At least with an 'open all hours' policy the troublemakers will stagger their home time. Thing is - most of the trouble-makers are usually the same people, or youngsters who think they can (but can't) take their drink. Most of these people make up 1% of those going out at night - so why limit the other 99% of decent law-abiding people because of the action of the brainless few? ksmain
  • Score: 4

10:04am Tue 17 Jun 14

elloello1980 says...

Dorset Guy1 wrote:
I to was fairly heavy session drinker in the late 60s 70s and early 80s before 24hour drinking took over a year to set foot in a pub in the old 3pm to 5pm closed times and even longer to stay after midnight except the odd special occasion (once a year) if you drink much after 1am you just about wipe out the next day so what is the point Also as has been asked where does the money come from ?Wonga!
most young people have jobs and can balance a life of work and pleasure
[quote][p][bold]Dorset Guy1[/bold] wrote: I to was fairly heavy session drinker in the late 60s 70s and early 80s before 24hour drinking took over a year to set foot in a pub in the old 3pm to 5pm closed times and even longer to stay after midnight except the odd special occasion (once a year) if you drink much after 1am you just about wipe out the next day so what is the point Also as has been asked where does the money come from ?Wonga![/p][/quote]most young people have jobs and can balance a life of work and pleasure elloello1980
  • Score: 3

12:17pm Tue 17 Jun 14

February1948 says...

ksmain wrote:
elloello1980 wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
Totally agree - there was always trouble at the eateries when everywhere used to shut at 2 in the mornings. Most of it from people already fuelled by alcohol who didn't have the wit or patience to wait their turn in the overcrowded queues from the eateries or the taxi ranks - and it allowed those who had words earlier on to catch up with each other to start the trouble again. It always staggers me that, on the continent, bars stay open all hours and there is little trouble. At least with an 'open all hours' policy the troublemakers will stagger their home time. Thing is - most of the trouble-makers are usually the same people, or youngsters who think they can (but can't) take their drink. Most of these people make up 1% of those going out at night - so why limit the other 99% of decent law-abiding people because of the action of the brainless few?
Having lived in Spain I feel I can put forward an opinion! The people in the Mediterreanean countries do not go out to get hammered and they haven't had a skinful of booze before they leave the house. They have a different way of life and go out, late at night in the summer, to eat and enjoy their wine. They then go on to clubs until the early hours and even then there's rarely any trouble. The only people I have ever seen drunk and making a nuisance of themselves are the Brits. We will never have a similar culture here even though the majority of us would like to, unless you live in Hampstead or Islington of course! The weather's a factor for one and the yob culture is another. And yes, when I were a lad, you could have an evening out with change from a pound, but I remember that we couldn't afford taxis and the last bus, where I lived, left the town at 10:20 pm!! And, of course, the parents were waiting on the doorstep for you - every move was was noted! Sorry, gone off message here.
[quote][p][bold]ksmain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]Totally agree - there was always trouble at the eateries when everywhere used to shut at 2 in the mornings. Most of it from people already fuelled by alcohol who didn't have the wit or patience to wait their turn in the overcrowded queues from the eateries or the taxi ranks - and it allowed those who had words earlier on to catch up with each other to start the trouble again. It always staggers me that, on the continent, bars stay open all hours and there is little trouble. At least with an 'open all hours' policy the troublemakers will stagger their home time. Thing is - most of the trouble-makers are usually the same people, or youngsters who think they can (but can't) take their drink. Most of these people make up 1% of those going out at night - so why limit the other 99% of decent law-abiding people because of the action of the brainless few?[/p][/quote]Having lived in Spain I feel I can put forward an opinion! The people in the Mediterreanean countries do not go out to get hammered and they haven't had a skinful of booze before they leave the house. They have a different way of life and go out, late at night in the summer, to eat and enjoy their wine. They then go on to clubs until the early hours and even then there's rarely any trouble. The only people I have ever seen drunk and making a nuisance of themselves are the Brits. We will never have a similar culture here even though the majority of us would like to, unless you live in Hampstead or Islington of course! The weather's a factor for one and the yob culture is another. And yes, when I were a lad, you could have an evening out with change from a pound, but I remember that we couldn't afford taxis and the last bus, where I lived, left the town at 10:20 pm!! And, of course, the parents were waiting on the doorstep for you - every move was was noted! Sorry, gone off message here. February1948
  • Score: 6

7:27pm Tue 17 Jun 14

Harpya Orkinus says...

When I last stayed in Malta I asked the owner of the Eureka Bar, in the Ta' Xbiex area, whether it was true that there was no age limit for kids to buy liquor. 'That's right!!', he said. 'So what would you do if a seven year old came in and asked for a scotch ??' I asked him. 'Well, I'd just have to serve him,' he answered: 'But in practice, it never happens !!'
It's true, there's a whole different attitude to public behavior and drink in Mediterranean countries. Children get a glass of wine with their dinner, and it's no big deal. Parents there seem to have the knack of bringing their offspring up properly, to respect their elders AND themselves, so that when they are adults themselves, they have some idea of how to conduct themselves in a proper manner, and not just degenerate into a public nuisance..
When I last stayed in Malta I asked the owner of the Eureka Bar, in the Ta' Xbiex area, whether it was true that there was no age limit for kids to buy liquor. 'That's right!!', he said. 'So what would you do if a seven year old came in and asked for a scotch ??' I asked him. 'Well, I'd just have to serve him,' he answered: 'But in practice, it never happens !!' It's true, there's a whole different attitude to public behavior and drink in Mediterranean countries. Children get a glass of wine with their dinner, and it's no big deal. Parents there seem to have the knack of bringing their offspring up properly, to respect their elders AND themselves, so that when they are adults themselves, they have some idea of how to conduct themselves in a proper manner, and not just degenerate into a public nuisance.. Harpya Orkinus
  • Score: 0

11:36am Wed 18 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

Harpya Orkinus wrote:
When I last stayed in Malta I asked the owner of the Eureka Bar, in the Ta' Xbiex area, whether it was true that there was no age limit for kids to buy liquor. 'That's right!!', he said. 'So what would you do if a seven year old came in and asked for a scotch ??' I asked him. 'Well, I'd just have to serve him,' he answered: 'But in practice, it never happens !!'
It's true, there's a whole different attitude to public behavior and drink in Mediterranean countries. Children get a glass of wine with their dinner, and it's no big deal. Parents there seem to have the knack of bringing their offspring up properly, to respect their elders AND themselves, so that when they are adults themselves, they have some idea of how to conduct themselves in a proper manner, and not just degenerate into a public nuisance..
I think that is absolutely the issue in this country.
We make such a song and dance about alcohol that people seem to think that its an essential part of adulthood. I am astounded by the number of people who write things like "i need a glass of wine after today", or "week over, time to get on it" or similar post-action reports.
I lived in Oslo for a time. They are also heavy drinkers, despite the cost of alcohol. Wine and spirits can only be bought from the state owned monopoly.
Could it be that the tighter the controls, the bigger the alcohol/behaviour problem?
[quote][p][bold]Harpya Orkinus[/bold] wrote: When I last stayed in Malta I asked the owner of the Eureka Bar, in the Ta' Xbiex area, whether it was true that there was no age limit for kids to buy liquor. 'That's right!!', he said. 'So what would you do if a seven year old came in and asked for a scotch ??' I asked him. 'Well, I'd just have to serve him,' he answered: 'But in practice, it never happens !!' It's true, there's a whole different attitude to public behavior and drink in Mediterranean countries. Children get a glass of wine with their dinner, and it's no big deal. Parents there seem to have the knack of bringing their offspring up properly, to respect their elders AND themselves, so that when they are adults themselves, they have some idea of how to conduct themselves in a proper manner, and not just degenerate into a public nuisance..[/p][/quote]I think that is absolutely the issue in this country. We make such a song and dance about alcohol that people seem to think that its an essential part of adulthood. I am astounded by the number of people who write things like "i need a glass of wine after today", or "week over, time to get on it" or similar post-action reports. I lived in Oslo for a time. They are also heavy drinkers, despite the cost of alcohol. Wine and spirits can only be bought from the state owned monopoly. Could it be that the tighter the controls, the bigger the alcohol/behaviour problem? JamesYoung
  • Score: 1

11:36am Wed 18 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

breamoreboy wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia.

Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123

Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.
irrelevant James.

My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world.

Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)
Try telling that to the lad I know with a masters degree in the subject :-)
If that was aimed at me, mine is an MBA, not statistics :-).
[quote][p][bold]breamoreboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia. Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123 Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.[/p][/quote]irrelevant James. My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world. Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)[/p][/quote]Try telling that to the lad I know with a masters degree in the subject :-)[/p][/quote]If that was aimed at me, mine is an MBA, not statistics :-). JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

11:41am Wed 18 Jun 14

JamesYoung says...

elloello1980 wrote:
JamesYoung wrote:
elloello1980 wrote:
anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am?

Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside.

As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign.

The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time
I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia.

Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123

Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.
irrelevant James.

My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world.

Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)
Well, i think its important to note that there is clearly a problem, because shop keepers have said so and bar owners are taking action voluntarily. When a group of businessmen do something voluntarily, it's generally because they know that the regulatory reaction would be stronger.
To dismiss statistics that demonstrate that a reduction in opening hours also results in a reduction in police involvement in assaults is perhaps a little short sighted in that context, since it is at least suggestive that if the same reduction were to be applied in Weymouth, its likely that the effects you've described are exaggerated (i.e., there might be more fights in a shorter period of time, but the overall number would drop).
As for statistics being made up, i agree. That's why its important to read the methodology to gauge reliability. Or you could just dismiss them because they happen to demonstrate that your argument doesn't hold water.
Anyway, i suspect we both agree that its sad that we live in a culture where these discussions are even required.
[quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elloello1980[/bold] wrote: anyone remember what happens when everywhere kicks out at 2am? Everyone piles into scoffers. 2-3am would see constant fights outside. As for the difference between 5 and 7am, neglible. waste of time campaign. The 24hr licence works as people leave bars in dribs and drabs (literally), so don't all bump in to each other at the same time[/p][/quote]I'll draw your attention to this - a change of closing time from 5am until 3.30am in Sydney, Australia. Kypri, K., McElduff, P. and Miller, P. (2014), Restrictions in pub closing times and lockouts in Newcastle, Australia five years on. Drug and Alcohol Review, 33: 323–326. doi: 10.1111/dar.12123 Conclusion: a one third reduction in reports of assault made to police.[/p][/quote]irrelevant James. My point is that not many people are still out at 7am. whereas in this day and age, 4am is a typical time to go home. Not to mention you are talking about a country the other side of the world. Plus, 90% of stats are made up or manipulated to suit ;)[/p][/quote]Well, i think its important to note that there is clearly a problem, because shop keepers have said so and bar owners are taking action voluntarily. When a group of businessmen do something voluntarily, it's generally because they know that the regulatory reaction would be stronger. To dismiss statistics that demonstrate that a reduction in opening hours also results in a reduction in police involvement in assaults is perhaps a little short sighted in that context, since it is at least suggestive that if the same reduction were to be applied in Weymouth, its likely that the effects you've described are exaggerated (i.e., there might be more fights in a shorter period of time, but the overall number would drop). As for statistics being made up, i agree. That's why its important to read the methodology to gauge reliability. Or you could just dismiss them because they happen to demonstrate that your argument doesn't hold water. Anyway, i suspect we both agree that its sad that we live in a culture where these discussions are even required. JamesYoung
  • Score: 1

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