VIDEO: Campaigners call for renationalisation of Dorset's railways

Campaigners are calling for the trains to be renationalised

Campaigners are calling for the trains to be renationalised

First published in News

CAMPAIGNERS are calling for train services to be renationalised.

Members of the Green Party handed out leaflets and chatted to commuters outside Weymouth railway station this morning as part of a national campaign to renationalise the service.

The campaign is part of national fair–fares day of action organised by a wide coalition of groups under the umbrella of Action for Rail.

Today is the day inflation figures are used to calculate the price increase in off-peak and anytime tickets.

A spokesman for South West Trains said that the Government sets the formula for regulated fares which includes season tickets. July's Retail Price Index (RPI) of 2.5%, which was announced yesterday by the ONS, will help to determine season tickets and other regulated fares for 2015.

Train fares are set to rise by the RPI plus 1 percent.

The Green Party is heading the campaign in Weymouth. Parliamentary candidate for South Dorset, Jane Burnet, said: “At the moment fares in the UK are some of the highest in Europe. The rail networks in France and Germany are publically owned. The fares are lower and the services are more efficient.”

Ms Burnet added that trains were essential to the economy of Dorset, bringing tourists to the coasts and giving people of working age flexibility in where they could go to be able to look for work. She added: “As far as south Dorset is concerned. The rail links, especially between here and Bristol are shocking.

“Bristol is one of the main centres in the South West. We should be able to access the Bristol economy a little easier than we can by train.”

Ms Burnet said they were calling on the government to renationalise the railways.

She said: “The private companies’ model of privatisation has had its time. It’s been tried and tested and it’s failed. It’s failed the passenger.”

She added: “We urgently need efficient and affordable rail links.”

It was especially important for areas like Weymouth that workers including young people could access the economies of Bournemouth and Bristol easily, Ms Burnet added.

The response from those commuters they had spoken to had been positive Ms Burnet said.

Comments (29)

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1:44pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters. cj07589
  • Score: 12

2:34pm Tue 19 Aug 14

35vulcan35 says...

The Green Party candidate, Jane Burnet, is correct. The train "service" offered between Weymouth & Bristol is awful. 3 hours between trains and only 2 lousy carriages. First Great Western management need to introduce an hourly service each way, using proper trains i.e. diesel locomotive + eight carriages minimum. The current "service" is prehistoric, considering it links a major town in south west England to a main seaside resort through beautiful countryside via major towns such as Bath & Dorchester. First Great Western are hopeless and should have their franchise cancelled
The Green Party candidate, Jane Burnet, is correct. The train "service" offered between Weymouth & Bristol is awful. 3 hours between trains and only 2 lousy carriages. First Great Western management need to introduce an hourly service each way, using proper trains i.e. diesel locomotive + eight carriages minimum. The current "service" is prehistoric, considering it links a major town in south west England to a main seaside resort through beautiful countryside via major towns such as Bath & Dorchester. First Great Western are hopeless and should have their franchise cancelled 35vulcan35
  • Score: 45

2:56pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

35vulcan35 wrote:
The Green Party candidate, Jane Burnet, is correct. The train "service" offered between Weymouth & Bristol is awful. 3 hours between trains and only 2 lousy carriages. First Great Western management need to introduce an hourly service each way, using proper trains i.e. diesel locomotive + eight carriages minimum. The current "service" is prehistoric, considering it links a major town in south west England to a main seaside resort through beautiful countryside via major towns such as Bath & Dorchester. First Great Western are hopeless and should have their franchise cancelled
Entirely agree with the points raised. In response to your closing sentence, in jest and based on far too many terrible experiences with them I've renamed this particular operator 'Worst late western' :-)
[quote][p][bold]35vulcan35[/bold] wrote: The Green Party candidate, Jane Burnet, is correct. The train "service" offered between Weymouth & Bristol is awful. 3 hours between trains and only 2 lousy carriages. First Great Western management need to introduce an hourly service each way, using proper trains i.e. diesel locomotive + eight carriages minimum. The current "service" is prehistoric, considering it links a major town in south west England to a main seaside resort through beautiful countryside via major towns such as Bath & Dorchester. First Great Western are hopeless and should have their franchise cancelled[/p][/quote]Entirely agree with the points raised. In response to your closing sentence, in jest and based on far too many terrible experiences with them I've renamed this particular operator 'Worst late western' :-) cj07589
  • Score: 14

2:56pm Tue 19 Aug 14

arlbergbahn says...

cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really? arlbergbahn
  • Score: 2

3:01pm Tue 19 Aug 14

arlbergbahn says...

For example, Jane Burnet of the Green Party has obviously been dazzled by the slickness of France's TGVs, but if she was to ever try to use rural services, or suburban services in the major conurbations, she might see another side of the story, scruffy trains, shocking graffiti, extraordinarily infrequent services (frequently replaced by buses), and timetables that often seem deliberately designed not to connect. But I don't suppose she'd criticise it, since they're provided by a state owned monopoly, SNCF. Mere dogma is rarely helpful.
For example, Jane Burnet of the Green Party has obviously been dazzled by the slickness of France's TGVs, but if she was to ever try to use rural services, or suburban services in the major conurbations, she might see another side of the story, scruffy trains, shocking graffiti, extraordinarily infrequent services (frequently replaced by buses), and timetables that often seem deliberately designed not to connect. But I don't suppose she'd criticise it, since they're provided by a state owned monopoly, SNCF. Mere dogma is rarely helpful. arlbergbahn
  • Score: 2

3:20pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

I might be wrong, but I suspect that there would be more support locally for renationalisation (and/or greater subsidy) for the buses than the railways. And I suspect that would be true of most of the country. Far more people travel by bus than train.
I might be wrong, but I suspect that there would be more support locally for renationalisation (and/or greater subsidy) for the buses than the railways. And I suspect that would be true of most of the country. Far more people travel by bus than train. Rocksalt
  • Score: 1

3:39pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for. cj07589
  • Score: 8

3:42pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ? Rocksalt
  • Score: -5

3:50pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap !
PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap ! Rocksalt
  • Score: -1

3:58pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date. cj07589
  • Score: 11

4:04pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

Rocksalt wrote:
PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap !
Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S.
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap ![/p][/quote]Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S. cj07589
  • Score: 11

5:03pm Tue 19 Aug 14

arlbergbahn says...

So (I'll ask again, but no one'll bother answering when they can have a good rant), what makes people believe that any Government could run it more efficiently and less expensively? Could someone answer this please rather than just using that tedious old lazy option of the "thumbs down"?
So (I'll ask again, but no one'll bother answering when they can have a good rant), what makes people believe that any Government could run it more efficiently and less expensively? Could someone answer this please rather than just using that tedious old lazy option of the "thumbs down"? arlbergbahn
  • Score: -102

5:05pm Tue 19 Aug 14

arlbergbahn says...

cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap !
Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S.
See, you can't expect any kind of considered response when stories like this just provide an opportunity for people to have a good old rant like this. What makes you believe that any Government could run them more efficiently and less expensively?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap ![/p][/quote]Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S.[/p][/quote]See, you can't expect any kind of considered response when stories like this just provide an opportunity for people to have a good old rant like this. What makes you believe that any Government could run them more efficiently and less expensively? arlbergbahn
  • Score: -9

5:15pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement.

I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.[/p][/quote]You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement. I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012. Rocksalt
  • Score: -8

5:41pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement.

I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.
Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour.
It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.[/p][/quote]You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement. I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.[/p][/quote]Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour. It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums? cj07589
  • Score: 8

5:48pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap !
Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S.
See, you can't expect any kind of considered response when stories like this just provide an opportunity for people to have a good old rant like this. What makes you believe that any Government could run them more efficiently and less expensively?
Well based on the fact that when the railways were state operated aka 'British rail' they were considerably cheaper for the customer. I do agree that our government couldn't do any task efficiently but less expensively is feasible as history has taught us already. The problem is that ticket prices are out of control at this rate the average income earner will be priced off the network, it simply doesn't stack up.
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: PS I see there have been over 36,000 deaths on the Mumbai Suburban Railway in the last 10 years. Just as well it's cheap ![/p][/quote]Well given you know the Mumbai train commute so well you'd also know that the locals anywhere they can I.e on the roof etc also the train lines passes literally through the ghettos which might explain your erroneous comparative. Have you travelled on trains leaving London during the rush hour commute? If so you'd know first hand how terrible and disappointing the service is irrespective of H&S.[/p][/quote]See, you can't expect any kind of considered response when stories like this just provide an opportunity for people to have a good old rant like this. What makes you believe that any Government could run them more efficiently and less expensively?[/p][/quote]Well based on the fact that when the railways were state operated aka 'British rail' they were considerably cheaper for the customer. I do agree that our government couldn't do any task efficiently but less expensively is feasible as history has taught us already. The problem is that ticket prices are out of control at this rate the average income earner will be priced off the network, it simply doesn't stack up. cj07589
  • Score: 3

5:59pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement.

I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.
Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour.
It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?
You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective.

And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response.

Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.[/p][/quote]You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement. I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.[/p][/quote]Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour. It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?[/p][/quote]You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective. And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response. Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train. Rocksalt
  • Score: -1

6:14pm Tue 19 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement.

I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.
Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour.
It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?
You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective.

And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response.

Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train.
Er, selective conversationist? Unless I'm going mad you didn't confirm in any shape or form that you commuted out of London, you said you commuted for 30years which could of been from Bristol to Weymouth for all we know. I do take your good point that buses are a popular mode of transport not sure how relevant or practical that is for those who live in rural Dorset, but anyhow my worry is that train fare rises are out pacing salary increases therefore there will come a tipping point where it is no longer viable to use it. I wouldn't mind the current system if the ticket tickets were commensurate to the service rendered, but little chance of anything changing soon so renationalisation to those endless escalating increases sounds very appealing.
[quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.[/p][/quote]You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement. I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.[/p][/quote]Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour. It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?[/p][/quote]You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective. And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response. Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train.[/p][/quote]Er, selective conversationist? Unless I'm going mad you didn't confirm in any shape or form that you commuted out of London, you said you commuted for 30years which could of been from Bristol to Weymouth for all we know. I do take your good point that buses are a popular mode of transport not sure how relevant or practical that is for those who live in rural Dorset, but anyhow my worry is that train fare rises are out pacing salary increases therefore there will come a tipping point where it is no longer viable to use it. I wouldn't mind the current system if the ticket tickets were commensurate to the service rendered, but little chance of anything changing soon so renationalisation to those endless escalating increases sounds very appealing. cj07589
  • Score: -1

6:36pm Tue 19 Aug 14

35vulcan35 says...

Some comments above are deviating from the initial subject. The first two letters are correct in slating First Great Western for being a rubbish rail operator. Weymouth & Bristol need a regular, reliable rail link with a frequent, reliable timetable using fit-for-purpose trains. If the best that FGW can provide is an infrequent, irregular, unreliable service using lousy 2 carriage trains that even cattle shouldn't be put into, then they should be stripped of their franchise, or gracefully hand it back
Some comments above are deviating from the initial subject. The first two letters are correct in slating First Great Western for being a rubbish rail operator. Weymouth & Bristol need a regular, reliable rail link with a frequent, reliable timetable using fit-for-purpose trains. If the best that FGW can provide is an infrequent, irregular, unreliable service using lousy 2 carriage trains that even cattle shouldn't be put into, then they should be stripped of their franchise, or gracefully hand it back 35vulcan35
  • Score: 25

6:32am Wed 20 Aug 14

Rocksalt says...

cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Rocksalt wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.
How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?
Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it.
My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.
You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement.

I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.
Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour.
It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?
You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective.

And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response.

Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train.
Er, selective conversationist? Unless I'm going mad you didn't confirm in any shape or form that you commuted out of London, you said you commuted for 30years which could of been from Bristol to Weymouth for all we know. I do take your good point that buses are a popular mode of transport not sure how relevant or practical that is for those who live in rural Dorset, but anyhow my worry is that train fare rises are out pacing salary increases therefore there will come a tipping point where it is no longer viable to use it. I wouldn't mind the current system if the ticket tickets were commensurate to the service rendered, but little chance of anything changing soon so renationalisation to those endless escalating increases sounds very appealing.
So buses aren't relevant for those who live in rural Dorset,but trains are ? Trains are important to those that rely on them, but the overwhelming majority of the population don't rely on them and most don't use them at all.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rocksalt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]It's not really a rant it's a subjective opinion as to the state of this countries once great railway system. Having travelled the world fairly well, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we have the worst and most expensive railway system in the world full stop. I'd sooner travel in India at least the trains are cheap, affordable and operate to a punctual schedule. All we get here is lame excuses and no accountability talk about day light robbery. Yes renationalisation isn't the magic bullet but at least you got what you paid for.[/p][/quote]How you can say "without a shadow of a doubt" that the UK has the worst railways in the world ? Have you really been to every country ?[/p][/quote]Which part of 'travelled fairly well' didn't you understand? You've made your point but we don't all have to agree with it. My comment is based on the experience of the train service provided in these countries, NZ, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA, Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Japan, Russia, France, Switzerland, Germany, Norway, Finland, SA, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia & Thailand to name a few therefore the point I made that the train service we receive here is sub standard, outrageously expensive and represents the worst train service of any developed first world country visited to date.[/p][/quote]You made the claim that the UKs trains are the worst in the world. You presented no evidence of this other than anecdotal evidence. I see you are now saying it's the worst of any first world country you have visited. The goal posts are very elastic this evening.I will leave others to decide how much faith to place in your judgement. I commuted by train for 30 years until 2012.[/p][/quote]Whatever, if you'd prefer to accept the current status quo based on your extensive knowledge of the world knowing full well you're being completely ripped off along the way then please be my guest! Im certainly not going to argue the toss when you conveniently change the discussion perspective to suit the agenda. Just out of interest what is the point you are tying to make re. commuting for 30years are we all meant to be impressed or is it some type of badge of honour. It is my humble opinion that generally UK trains are the worst in the world based on their price, reliability and punctuality, tough cheese if you don't agree but hey isn't that the point of these forums?[/p][/quote]You asked if I had any experience of travelling from London during peak commuting time. I answered the question. Is this what you mean when you mention changing the discussion perspective. And no, don't expect anyone to be impressed by 30 years commuting. "More fool you" is a the more likely response. Keeping to the subject at hand, some may recall that I suggested people might prefer to use resources on buses. Seemed logical, given that 3 or 4 times as many people travel to work by bus than by train.[/p][/quote]Er, selective conversationist? Unless I'm going mad you didn't confirm in any shape or form that you commuted out of London, you said you commuted for 30years which could of been from Bristol to Weymouth for all we know. I do take your good point that buses are a popular mode of transport not sure how relevant or practical that is for those who live in rural Dorset, but anyhow my worry is that train fare rises are out pacing salary increases therefore there will come a tipping point where it is no longer viable to use it. I wouldn't mind the current system if the ticket tickets were commensurate to the service rendered, but little chance of anything changing soon so renationalisation to those endless escalating increases sounds very appealing.[/p][/quote]So buses aren't relevant for those who live in rural Dorset,but trains are ? Trains are important to those that rely on them, but the overwhelming majority of the population don't rely on them and most don't use them at all. Rocksalt
  • Score: 0

10:55am Wed 20 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

In keeping with true GWR form my train to work was again late this morning by over 30mins, well done worst late western at least your service is consistently rubbish.
In keeping with true GWR form my train to work was again late this morning by over 30mins, well done worst late western at least your service is consistently rubbish. cj07589
  • Score: 7

2:45pm Wed 20 Aug 14

Richard Edwards says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.
I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective.
And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?
The East Coast Mainline has made a profit for the taxpayer of over £600 million since it was brought back under public ownership. So yes, it can work. Of course, the government in its wisdom wants it run privately again.
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: 110% support for this initiative. The current train service is disgraceful, it's usually running old & dilapidated carriages and the service is almost always delayed or running behind schedule. How on earth these jokers can honestly justify the eye watering ticket prices is beyond all reasonable comprehension. Re nationalisation is the only way forward to rein in these mind boggling annual ticket price increases, the whole system is not fit for purpose and the sooner something is done about it the better it will be for the affordability of commuters.[/p][/quote]I presume this was directed at First Great Western? In which case I'm afraid I'd agree, their recent performance has been shocking. However, if you're lumping SWT in as well in a generic rant, then I'm afraid you'd be largely incorrect. In short, and this would go for the Green Party as well, rather than ranting about "the railways" as a whole, criticism directed at the areas that can be justifiably criticised rather than a shotgun approach of a general rant would make their argument much more effective. And hands up anyone who REALLY thinks that the Government would be capable of running anything efficiently and at lower cost? I mean really?[/p][/quote]The East Coast Mainline has made a profit for the taxpayer of over £600 million since it was brought back under public ownership. So yes, it can work. Of course, the government in its wisdom wants it run privately again. Richard Edwards
  • Score: 4

4:23pm Wed 20 Aug 14

WykeReg says...

Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining.

Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.

The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve.

A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network.

It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation.

There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you).

I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it.

A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and
-hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.
Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining. Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve. A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network. It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation. There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you). I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it. A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and -hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden. WykeReg
  • Score: 3

6:33pm Wed 20 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

WykeReg wrote:
Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining.

Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.

The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve.

A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network.

It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation.

There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you).

I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it.

A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and

-hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.
The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets.
[quote][p][bold]WykeReg[/bold] wrote: Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining. Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve. A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network. It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation. There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you). I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it. A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and -hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.[/p][/quote]The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets. cj07589
  • Score: 1

7:29pm Wed 20 Aug 14

35vulcan35 says...

arlbergbahn wrote:
So (I'll ask again, but no one'll bother answering when they can have a good rant), what makes people believe that any Government could run it more efficiently and less expensively? Could someone answer this please rather than just using that tedious old lazy option of the "thumbs down"?
Why criticize the Echo for providing a useful tool for its readers to vote whether or not your opinions are agreed with? I like the "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" option. I note that over 80 readers have given you a "thumbs down" for your request. I think that must be the highest number of "thumbs down" I've ever seen on any thread !
[quote][p][bold]arlbergbahn[/bold] wrote: So (I'll ask again, but no one'll bother answering when they can have a good rant), what makes people believe that any Government could run it more efficiently and less expensively? Could someone answer this please rather than just using that tedious old lazy option of the "thumbs down"?[/p][/quote]Why criticize the Echo for providing a useful tool for its readers to vote whether or not your opinions are agreed with? I like the "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" option. I note that over 80 readers have given you a "thumbs down" for your request. I think that must be the highest number of "thumbs down" I've ever seen on any thread ! 35vulcan35
  • Score: 7

7:48pm Thu 21 Aug 14

bigfatlad says...

BRING BACK BRITISH RAIL!!!!
BRING BACK BRITISH RAIL!!!! bigfatlad
  • Score: 2

9:10am Fri 22 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

bigfatlad wrote:
BRING BACK BRITISH RAIL!!!!
Bring back affordable ticket prices!
[quote][p][bold]bigfatlad[/bold] wrote: BRING BACK BRITISH RAIL!!!![/p][/quote]Bring back affordable ticket prices! cj07589
  • Score: 2

3:58pm Fri 22 Aug 14

WykeReg says...

cj07589 wrote:
WykeReg wrote:
Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining.

Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.

The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve.

A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network.

It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation.

There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you).

I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it.

A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and


-hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.
The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets.
Actually, the most productive and sensible economies invest heavily in freight trains. Passenger trains are useful but an uneconomic drain on the public purse, but freight trains earn their keep and more. Warren Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe because it is a very well-managed and profitable freight system. He didn't invest in money-losing commuter services. Again, are the folk in the Shetlands or the Hebrides happy to fund rail services in Dorset - why should they be happy?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WykeReg[/bold] wrote: Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining. Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve. A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network. It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation. There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you). I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it. A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and -hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.[/p][/quote]The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets.[/p][/quote]Actually, the most productive and sensible economies invest heavily in freight trains. Passenger trains are useful but an uneconomic drain on the public purse, but freight trains earn their keep and more. Warren Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe because it is a very well-managed and profitable freight system. He didn't invest in money-losing commuter services. Again, are the folk in the Shetlands or the Hebrides happy to fund rail services in Dorset - why should they be happy? WykeReg
  • Score: 1

10:31pm Fri 22 Aug 14

cj07589 says...

WykeReg wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
WykeReg wrote:
Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining.

Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.

The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve.

A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network.

It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation.

There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you).

I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it.

A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and



-hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.
The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets.
Actually, the most productive and sensible economies invest heavily in freight trains. Passenger trains are useful but an uneconomic drain on the public purse, but freight trains earn their keep and more. Warren Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe because it is a very well-managed and profitable freight system. He didn't invest in money-losing commuter services. Again, are the folk in the Shetlands or the Hebrides happy to fund rail services in Dorset - why should they be happy?
That makes no sense whatsoever, why even bother bringing the Hebrides or Shetlands into the debate. Facts are that 60million plus population need an efficient & affordable train system, do you actually think the road network has capacity to expand??
Do you think 14% of income spent on transportation is acceptable? The German comutters spent 5% sort of puts some context doesn't it? We get a very poor deal. In industry terms it's called being a captive cash cow. Happy to accept that?
[quote][p][bold]WykeReg[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WykeReg[/bold] wrote: Hate to nitpick, but the article quotes Jane Burnet of the Green Party as saying that the German rail network is publicly owned. To my understanding the German railways are operated by Deutsche Bahn AG. The 'AG' stands for Aktien Gesellschaft meaning a joint-stock company. I don't know whether the federal or state governments subsidize it in any way but it is not nationalized. DB inherited a system that is in poor shape according to a recent system-wide survey. Many tracks are not in good repair and some switching points have not been replaced for 100 years!! Absenteeism among train crews is becoming a major problem and service levels are declining. Ticket prices on the French railways may be low, but the system is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The French and German networks are not shining examples of what nationalization can achieve. A recent report on the Indian railways describes the government's efforts to bring in private capital to modernize a system that is on the verge of collapse (freight trains usually move at walking pace). Again nationalization has failed to invest in the network. It is difficult to make passenger services pay when the full costs of building, maintaining and improving the infrastructure are taken into account, along with periodic replacement of rolling stock. These costly assets are rarely fully utilized outside of inter-city lines since for most commuter lines there are two peak periods every day and largely empty trains during off-peak hours that do not cover their cost of operation. There are only two choices for pricing: Either passengers have to pay an economic price that covers operating costs and provides funds for future investment, or the services are nationalized, in which case all taxpayers bear the burden whether they ever use a train or not (ask the Shetland Islanders if they are happy for their taxes to go to funding trains in Dorset - the 'Yes' campaign will love you). I'm not impressed by arguments that the East Coast line or whatever has 'made a profit for the taxpayer' if by that is meant the government pinched the money. Have they ring-fenced it to provide investment funds to keep the system up to scratch? I very much doubt it. A question for those who want nationalization: Do you truly, cross-your-heart-and -hope-to-die, believe that politicians are great at managing things? If yes, please invite me round so I can take some photos of the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden.[/p][/quote]The most productive and sensible economies heavy subsidise their railway networks it boast the economy and improves social mobility yet the commuter in this country gets screwed to line some greedy fat cats pockets.[/p][/quote]Actually, the most productive and sensible economies invest heavily in freight trains. Passenger trains are useful but an uneconomic drain on the public purse, but freight trains earn their keep and more. Warren Buffet bought Burlington Northern Santa Fe because it is a very well-managed and profitable freight system. He didn't invest in money-losing commuter services. Again, are the folk in the Shetlands or the Hebrides happy to fund rail services in Dorset - why should they be happy?[/p][/quote]That makes no sense whatsoever, why even bother bringing the Hebrides or Shetlands into the debate. Facts are that 60million plus population need an efficient & affordable train system, do you actually think the road network has capacity to expand?? Do you think 14% of income spent on transportation is acceptable? The German comutters spent 5% sort of puts some context doesn't it? We get a very poor deal. In industry terms it's called being a captive cash cow. Happy to accept that? cj07589
  • Score: 1

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