Hundreds at Portland power station demo

Dorset Echo: The power plant protest The power plant protest

CAMPAIGNERS from across the country joined the latest protest march against a new power station being built on Portland.

Around 250 people lined part of the Causeway in a bid to bring attention to their battle against a biofuel plant being built at Balaclava Bay.

Police officers stopped the traffic on the Portland Beach Road to let the people cross as they headed to the sailing academy before holding a rally outside the gates of Portland Port.

Saturday’s march was delayed by 45 minutes to wait for a coach-load of climate change protesters from London who eventually joined the march at Portland Castle.

Local protesters and others from Bristol, Wales and Sheffield carried buckets of sand from the castle to drop it outside the gates of the port.

Organiser Andrew Butler, from the campaign group No Oil Palm Energy (NOPE), drew a line in the sand as he started his speech: “We are drawing a line. This is the battleground for all across Britain.

“We have capitalists rubbing their hands because if they build here on Portland they are going to make a lot of money building these all over the UK.

“We will stop them here and they will go no further.”

W4B Renewable Energy, the company behind the plant, say it is going to be a ‘green’ energy source as it will not burn food-grade palm oil.

And local businessmen have backed the plant on the grounds that it will provide jobs for the island.

The marchers carried placards including one that read ‘Don’t Pollute Portland’ while others wore gas masks as passing drivers beeped in support.

Another banner held up at Portland Port read ‘Portland betrayed and now no longer part of the Jurassic Coast.’ A group of boys started their own chant of ‘We don’t want no palm oil plant, come and join us sing our chant’ and also ‘W4B, out out out.’ Ian Lander, fellow organiser from Biofuel Watch, warned the local families of the pollution he believes would be caused.

He said: “The plant will burn 40,000 tonnes of biodiesel.

“That’s the equivalent of 40,000 cars driving around the streets of Portland all day every day.”

Ros Kayes, former Liberal Democrat parliamentary candidate for South Dorset, said the new power plant was ‘clearly opposed by the local community.’ She said: “Today we’ve walked past one of the most beautiful harbours in Britain and the site of the 2012 Olympic sailing events.

“Why on Earth are they going to be allowed to build a biofuel plant here?”

Richard Denton-White, from Portland Town Council, attacked Weymouth and Portland Borough Council’s decision to back the plant and also blamed the previous Labour government for supplying grants to biofuel schemes.

He said: “Now I want to ask the coalition ‘are you going to be the greenest government in history?’”

* W4B managing director Richard Gudgeon has previously stated that environmental fears are unfounded.

He said: “We’re absolutely committed to sourcing palm stearin – the industrial by-product of palm oil – that’s not grown on land that’s being deforested, affecting orangutans or displacing local villagers.

“We share the same concerns with the local Friends of the Earth and we’re trying to be transparent.

“Because we’re generating electricity we have to, by law, provide Ofgen with a sustainability report every year.

“This will be publicly available and has to show every single delivery of oil, where it’s from and where it was sourced with sustainability criteria.”

Comments (66)

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11:50am Mon 27 Sep 10

Hubbahubba Momma says...

Could anyone please explain why, when many of these protestors stopped off for a hot drink and something to eat, at a chesil beach cafe, they opted for polystyrene cups and food boxes as opposed to the proper cups and plates offered as a 'green' option. Doesn't seem right somehow does it????
Could anyone please explain why, when many of these protestors stopped off for a hot drink and something to eat, at a chesil beach cafe, they opted for polystyrene cups and food boxes as opposed to the proper cups and plates offered as a 'green' option. Doesn't seem right somehow does it???? Hubbahubba Momma

12:04pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

Absolute nonsense. this bunch of rent-a-mob wallies are so badly misinformed you have to wonder whether they're actually spreading tehir lies deliberately. I mean they are either stupid or malicious.

The facts are that the proposed biofuel electricity generating plant is about as ecologically sound as is possible. Nutters like these have wound locals up with lies and propaganda. They're professional protesters. They'd be campaigning against motherhood and apple pie if they got the chance.

Portland should be welcoming this innovative, environmentally friendly business.
Absolute nonsense. this bunch of rent-a-mob wallies are so badly misinformed you have to wonder whether they're actually spreading tehir lies deliberately. I mean they are either stupid or malicious. The facts are that the proposed biofuel electricity generating plant is about as ecologically sound as is possible. Nutters like these have wound locals up with lies and propaganda. They're professional protesters. They'd be campaigning against motherhood and apple pie if they got the chance. Portland should be welcoming this innovative, environmentally friendly business. PoetPeter

12:09pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Duckorange says...

"We have capitalists rubbing their hands...they are going to make a lot of money building these all over the UK"
.
And here lies the true motive of the NOPE wallies.
"We have capitalists rubbing their hands...they are going to make a lot of money building these all over the UK" . And here lies the true motive of the NOPE wallies. Duckorange

12:31pm Mon 27 Sep 10

purbeckeco says...

W4B "We share the same concerns with the local Friends of the Earth". Really? If you have a read of the reports and policies of Friends of the Earth it is clear that they oppose monoculture plantations and agrofuels, whether palm or jatropha
http://www.foei.org/
en/resources/publica
tions/agrofuels.
Makes no difference if it's palm oil or palm stearin, it all supports the same industry and thus all contributes to deforestation.

W4B couldn't care less about the rainforests the local community or anything else, they're in for the money. If they really cared about providing renewable energy they'd be investing in solar or wind.
W4B "We share the same concerns with the local Friends of the Earth". Really? If you have a read of the reports and policies of Friends of the Earth it is clear that they oppose monoculture plantations and agrofuels, whether palm or jatropha http://www.foei.org/ en/resources/publica tions/agrofuels. Makes no difference if it's palm oil or palm stearin, it all supports the same industry and thus all contributes to deforestation. W4B couldn't care less about the rainforests the local community or anything else, they're in for the money. If they really cared about providing renewable energy they'd be investing in solar or wind. purbeckeco

12:52pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@Purbeckeco

Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is.
Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade.
You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on.
@Purbeckeco Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is. Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade. You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on. PoetPeter

1:12pm Mon 27 Sep 10

portland6 says...

Hundreds of people marched. I am not a nutter, or a wally, or stupid. I do not wear sandals or often eat brown rice. I am not a member of FoE. I am a local parent, concerned about the ethics of, and pollution caused by, palm oil energy. Everyone I spoke to at the march was a local concerned person with no outright political agenda. I did not use a polystyrene cup; I'm sure, if that happened at all, it was a tiny percentage of those present. I can't help thinking that those on here opposed to the marchers might do well to offer opposing arguments, rather than resorting to childish insults. W4B say that W4B are environmentally conscious? Well, no need to look into that any more closely, then...
Hundreds of people marched. I am not a nutter, or a wally, or stupid. I do not wear sandals or often eat brown rice. I am not a member of FoE. I am a local parent, concerned about the ethics of, and pollution caused by, palm oil energy. Everyone I spoke to at the march was a local concerned person with no outright political agenda. I did not use a polystyrene cup; I'm sure, if that happened at all, it was a tiny percentage of those present. I can't help thinking that those on here opposed to the marchers might do well to offer opposing arguments, rather than resorting to childish insults. W4B say that W4B are environmentally conscious? Well, no need to look into that any more closely, then... portland6

1:19pm Mon 27 Sep 10

grumbler says...

Now that the 'NOPE' march is over, why are the posters still tied to lampposts all over the place. Do the environmentalists think they should leave litter behind, or do they rely on wind power to tidy up after them?
Now that the 'NOPE' march is over, why are the posters still tied to lampposts all over the place. Do the environmentalists think they should leave litter behind, or do they rely on wind power to tidy up after them? grumbler

1:20pm Mon 27 Sep 10

banknote says...

Well said, PoetPeter.
Well said, PoetPeter. banknote

1:24pm Mon 27 Sep 10

banknote says...

grumbler wrote:
Now that the 'NOPE' march is over, why are the posters still tied to lampposts all over the place. Do the environmentalists think they should leave litter behind, or do they rely on wind power to tidy up after them?
You're right, grumbler.

But remember with these lefties it's "don't do as I do - do as i tell you"
[quote][p][bold]grumbler[/bold] wrote: Now that the 'NOPE' march is over, why are the posters still tied to lampposts all over the place. Do the environmentalists think they should leave litter behind, or do they rely on wind power to tidy up after them?[/p][/quote]You're right, grumbler. But remember with these lefties it's "don't do as I do - do as i tell you" banknote

1:28pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Micke12 says...

I don't know, what is this world coming to. In an era when many many people are to lose their jobs because of government austerity on an unprecedented, and to be quite honest, unnecessary level, you would think that any jobs that can be created for the local economy would be welcomed. But no, we just carry on complaining about biofuels and power satations that will be built. We have the 2012 olympics in a couple of years, that will only provide temporary labour, whereas this plant will provide full-time, permanent jobs. This plant is going to use palm stearin, a substance that would be normally not be used although the palms themselves would still be cut down. this is one of the better options enviromentally if we have to use vegetation matter to power this country, but i suppose you would all be up in arms if it was decided that as well is stearin, they decided to also burn all household rubbish that is easily combustible. Solar and wind energy can help in the fight to reduce carbon fuels use for electricity, but to generate enough electricity to power this country, just about every square mile would need either wind turbines or solar panelling. I don't know the exact figures, but i suspect that this plant, along with all the other power generating solutions we have in this area could provide enough power for Weymouth and Portland locally as well as placing some on the national grid. If power for this area can be sourced locally from a local power station and a local energy supplier, we might even be able to save money on our electricity bills. FoE are known for their scare-mongering tactics. The stuff is going to be obtained anyway, regardless of the source, as the trees will be cut down for the other substances that are obtained. There is also the possibility that this plant can burn other types of vegetable fuels, like hemp and other weeds, although I am not sure of that myself. the main thing is, is that jobs will be created in a time when jobs are being axed. As for those who say they are only interested in making money, ask yourself this, would you complain if you had a business that was making loads of money. Of course you wouldn't. None of us would. Money is what makes the world go round. You cannot run a business for long if you make no profit, it is what you do with that profit that marks what sort of business you are. If you place a sizeable sum back into the local economy, everyone loves you, but if all the money goes to the major shareholders in dividends, then you are bad in peoples eyes. Let us give this plant a chance. I know our council are idiots, and that they make mistakes and do not listen to us, but I think in this case, they have made the right choice, a choice that was made before this government decided to put all of us in the poop-poop. Anything that can get us out of this problem and create jobs of a permanent nature, has to be good for the locals.
I don't know, what is this world coming to. In an era when many many people are to lose their jobs because of government austerity on an unprecedented, and to be quite honest, unnecessary level, you would think that any jobs that can be created for the local economy would be welcomed. But no, we just carry on complaining about biofuels and power satations that will be built. We have the 2012 olympics in a couple of years, that will only provide temporary labour, whereas this plant will provide full-time, permanent jobs. This plant is going to use palm stearin, a substance that would be normally not be used although the palms themselves would still be cut down. this is one of the better options enviromentally if we have to use vegetation matter to power this country, but i suppose you would all be up in arms if it was decided that as well is stearin, they decided to also burn all household rubbish that is easily combustible. Solar and wind energy can help in the fight to reduce carbon fuels use for electricity, but to generate enough electricity to power this country, just about every square mile would need either wind turbines or solar panelling. I don't know the exact figures, but i suspect that this plant, along with all the other power generating solutions we have in this area could provide enough power for Weymouth and Portland locally as well as placing some on the national grid. If power for this area can be sourced locally from a local power station and a local energy supplier, we might even be able to save money on our electricity bills. FoE are known for their scare-mongering tactics. The stuff is going to be obtained anyway, regardless of the source, as the trees will be cut down for the other substances that are obtained. There is also the possibility that this plant can burn other types of vegetable fuels, like hemp and other weeds, although I am not sure of that myself. the main thing is, is that jobs will be created in a time when jobs are being axed. As for those who say they are only interested in making money, ask yourself this, would you complain if you had a business that was making loads of money. Of course you wouldn't. None of us would. Money is what makes the world go round. You cannot run a business for long if you make no profit, it is what you do with that profit that marks what sort of business you are. If you place a sizeable sum back into the local economy, everyone loves you, but if all the money goes to the major shareholders in dividends, then you are bad in peoples eyes. Let us give this plant a chance. I know our council are idiots, and that they make mistakes and do not listen to us, but I think in this case, they have made the right choice, a choice that was made before this government decided to put all of us in the poop-poop. Anything that can get us out of this problem and create jobs of a permanent nature, has to be good for the locals. Micke12

1:30pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

banknote wrote:
Well said, PoetPeter.
Thanks.
I've been to WPBC's offices and read through the two large boxes that contain all the details of W4b'S planning application. How many of the protestors have done that?
Sorry Portland6, I don't doubt your genuine concern but you're being manipulated and terrorised by misinformation and propaganda along with hundreds of others. Find out the facts for yourself. Don't believe a word the eco-terrorists say.
[quote][p][bold]banknote[/bold] wrote: Well said, PoetPeter.[/p][/quote]Thanks. I've been to WPBC's offices and read through the two large boxes that contain all the details of W4b'S planning application. How many of the protestors have done that? Sorry Portland6, I don't doubt your genuine concern but you're being manipulated and terrorised by misinformation and propaganda along with hundreds of others. Find out the facts for yourself. Don't believe a word the eco-terrorists say. PoetPeter

1:33pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@Micke12
Spot on!
@Micke12 Spot on! PoetPeter

2:14pm Mon 27 Sep 10

captainsea says...

What happened to the thousands they were expecting? Yet another failure of Denton -White and his cronies, why oh why doesn't he just give up and get a life.
What happened to the thousands they were expecting? Yet another failure of Denton -White and his cronies, why oh why doesn't he just give up and get a life. captainsea

2:29pm Mon 27 Sep 10

banknote says...

captainsea wrote:
What happened to the thousands they were expecting? Yet another failure of Denton -White and his cronies, why oh why doesn't he just give up and get a life.
Oh come-on captainsea, didn't you realise the poor man suffers from verbal diarrhoea !!??

Very well said though.
[quote][p][bold]captainsea[/bold] wrote: What happened to the thousands they were expecting? Yet another failure of Denton -White and his cronies, why oh why doesn't he just give up and get a life.[/p][/quote]Oh come-on captainsea, didn't you realise the poor man suffers from verbal diarrhoea !!?? Very well said though. banknote

2:56pm Mon 27 Sep 10

peaceful_activist says...

I am not affiliated with any group or aforementioned individual. To my knowledge they have only joined in and offered their support recently (first time I've heard of them in this situation).
This proposed plant has been a major concern to locals such as myself for a long time. I have read that the pollution from the plant will include chemicals thought to cause cancers, asthma and other respiratory problems. Whether this is accurate or not, any mass processing plant of this nature will of course produce massive pollution-and this will affect our air quality. Not only that but it will spoil an area of outstanding natural beauty and most likely waft a nasty smell across the whole area (including Weymouth beach). All in all this can only damage tourism-the major source of income for the entire area.
The pollution caused/carbon output (and the deforestation associated in the production of the raw material) will add to climate change. I thought the whole point was to try an alleviate the problem?
We really don't need a biofuel plant-there are alternatives which are genuinely renewable and pollution-free. They involve no risk to the health of the local population and will have no devastating consequences to communities elsewhere on the globe, will not destroy habitat and wildlife and will not contribute to climate change. So isn't it better that investment is made in one of the alternatives?
The jobs created by the palm oil plant are going to be minimal-an equal or greater number of jobs will be created from a genuinely green and safe alternative.
The government are trying to fob us off with this green-washing nonsense as it means big profit for them. Biofuel plants have a huge carbon output. The reason they have chosen this location (our beautiful town) is because we have a relatively low output/have not reached our limit for the area yet. They could not stick it in London/Manchester for example as their carbon output limits have been reached (and far exceeded!).
I don't understand why people are so aggressively supporting the palm-oil plant. Isn't it better that we find a solution better for all? Free of risk and destruction?
When you assess the accuracy/genuineness of someone's information, you need to follow the money trail. Who is telling you the biofuel plant will be ok? (W4B/Government), what do they stand to gain by telling you this? (Lots of money!). What financial incentive do those opposing the plant stand to gain?:Nothing! Who do you think is telling the truth?
I am not affiliated with any group or aforementioned individual. To my knowledge they have only joined in and offered their support recently (first time I've heard of them in this situation). This proposed plant has been a major concern to locals such as myself for a long time. I have read that the pollution from the plant will include chemicals thought to cause cancers, asthma and other respiratory problems. Whether this is accurate or not, any mass processing plant of this nature will of course produce massive pollution-and this will affect our air quality. Not only that but it will spoil an area of outstanding natural beauty and most likely waft a nasty smell across the whole area (including Weymouth beach). All in all this can only damage tourism-the major source of income for the entire area. The pollution caused/carbon output (and the deforestation associated in the production of the raw material) will add to climate change. I thought the whole point was to try an alleviate the problem? We really don't need a biofuel plant-there are alternatives which are genuinely renewable and pollution-free. They involve no risk to the health of the local population and will have no devastating consequences to communities elsewhere on the globe, will not destroy habitat and wildlife and will not contribute to climate change. So isn't it better that investment is made in one of the alternatives? The jobs created by the palm oil plant are going to be minimal-an equal or greater number of jobs will be created from a genuinely green and safe alternative. The government are trying to fob us off with this green-washing nonsense as it means big profit for them. Biofuel plants have a huge carbon output. The reason they have chosen this location (our beautiful town) is because we have a relatively low output/have not reached our limit for the area yet. They could not stick it in London/Manchester for example as their carbon output limits have been reached (and far exceeded!). I don't understand why people are so aggressively supporting the palm-oil plant. Isn't it better that we find a solution better for all? Free of risk and destruction? When you assess the accuracy/genuineness of someone's information, you need to follow the money trail. Who is telling you the biofuel plant will be ok? (W4B/Government), what do they stand to gain by telling you this? (Lots of money!). What financial incentive do those opposing the plant stand to gain?:Nothing! Who do you think is telling the truth? peaceful_activist

2:58pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Mcilrae says...

I agree that people should research the facts for themselves and make up their own minds. With that in mind, there is some serious misinformation in some of these comments, perhaps people were just guessing about these “facts”?

Palm stearin is not an unused ‘by-product’ of palm oil, it comes from the same oil palm fruit as palm oil and palm olien. Palm stearin is not a waste product, it is currently used in food, such as baked goods, and in cosmetics, often labelled as palm fat. The trees are not cut down, the fruit is harvested from them. The problem is that rainforests are cleared to make way for oil palm plantations, and as demand for these products increases, more and more forests are being destroyed. In Indonesia alone 2.5 million hectares are destroyed every year. These forests are home to some of the most diverse range of plant and animal life on the planet. They are the last remaining habitat of orangutans, and conservationists working in these areas fear that at current rates of expansion, oil palm plantations will drive these animals to extinct ion the wild by 2015. The plantations themselves do not support the diversity of insect, bird and animal life that the forests do, and of course they only support one type of vegetation, the oil palms themselves. Furthermore, hundreds of thousands of people live in the forests and millions rely on them for food, medicine, building materials and fuel. When the forests are gone and replaced by monoculture palm plantations, people loose their homes and their means of survival. They are no longer able to pursue traditional livelihoods and are driven into poverty and destitution. This is some of what’s wrong with palm oil. The only other oil W4B have stated they will use is jatropha, which is already leading to subsistence in India and Africa being deprived of productive agricultural land, which is then used to intensively grow jatropha for biofuels, leading to increased poverty and loss of food security.

There is nothing remotely environmentally or socially conscious about industrial biofuel.
I agree that people should research the facts for themselves and make up their own minds. With that in mind, there is some serious misinformation in some of these comments, perhaps people were just guessing about these “facts”? Palm stearin is not an unused ‘by-product’ of palm oil, it comes from the same oil palm fruit as palm oil and palm olien. Palm stearin is not a waste product, it is currently used in food, such as baked goods, and in cosmetics, often labelled as palm fat. The trees are not cut down, the fruit is harvested from them. The problem is that rainforests are cleared to make way for oil palm plantations, and as demand for these products increases, more and more forests are being destroyed. In Indonesia alone 2.5 million hectares are destroyed every year. These forests are home to some of the most diverse range of plant and animal life on the planet. They are the last remaining habitat of orangutans, and conservationists working in these areas fear that at current rates of expansion, oil palm plantations will drive these animals to extinct ion the wild by 2015. The plantations themselves do not support the diversity of insect, bird and animal life that the forests do, and of course they only support one type of vegetation, the oil palms themselves. Furthermore, hundreds of thousands of people live in the forests and millions rely on them for food, medicine, building materials and fuel. When the forests are gone and replaced by monoculture palm plantations, people loose their homes and their means of survival. They are no longer able to pursue traditional livelihoods and are driven into poverty and destitution. This is some of what’s wrong with palm oil. The only other oil W4B have stated they will use is jatropha, which is already leading to subsistence in India and Africa being deprived of productive agricultural land, which is then used to intensively grow jatropha for biofuels, leading to increased poverty and loss of food security. There is nothing remotely environmentally or socially conscious about industrial biofuel. Mcilrae

3:06pm Mon 27 Sep 10

ohec says...

I like many other Portland residents are opposed to this scheme for many reasons the main one being I don’t want any vegetable matter burnt to produce electricity, there is only one real answer to provide us with the amount of electricity we need and that is nuclear power. By all means use other means of harnessing our planets natural power but the whole idea of burning oil is obscene and like a lot of things they will turn around in 20/30 years time and say we would never have done that if we had realised the affect that it has had on our environment and peoples health.
I like many other Portland residents are opposed to this scheme for many reasons the main one being I don’t want any vegetable matter burnt to produce electricity, there is only one real answer to provide us with the amount of electricity we need and that is nuclear power. By all means use other means of harnessing our planets natural power but the whole idea of burning oil is obscene and like a lot of things they will turn around in 20/30 years time and say we would never have done that if we had realised the affect that it has had on our environment and peoples health. ohec

3:26pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

The comments made above about deforestation just demonstrate the depths of ignorance on which so many of these antis base their arguments.
@Mcilrae
Your statements are entirely irrelevant and nothing to do with W4B. Go and read the planning application. Just because The Guardian or some hypocritical bunch of tossers like FoE say there is bad practice in palm oil production doesn't mean that it's all bad! Biofuel offers enormous benefits to our world if it's responsibly used. It's oil that has caused all our troubles.
@ohec
Why is burning vegetable oil obscene? It's completely sustainable. Greenhouse gas emissions are neutralised by re-growth. Particulate emissions are tightly controlled. I think you're just using rather hysterical language with no real justification.
I agree with you about nuclear power though. We should be investing in it heavily. Of course, FoE and the antis will be opposed to that too.
The comments made above about deforestation just demonstrate the depths of ignorance on which so many of these antis base their arguments. @Mcilrae Your statements are entirely irrelevant and nothing to do with W4B. Go and read the planning application. Just because The Guardian or some hypocritical bunch of tossers like FoE say there is bad practice in palm oil production doesn't mean that it's all bad! Biofuel offers enormous benefits to our world if it's responsibly used. It's oil that has caused all our troubles. @ohec Why is burning vegetable oil obscene? It's completely sustainable. Greenhouse gas emissions are neutralised by re-growth. Particulate emissions are tightly controlled. I think you're just using rather hysterical language with no real justification. I agree with you about nuclear power though. We should be investing in it heavily. Of course, FoE and the antis will be opposed to that too. PoetPeter

4:08pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Duckorange says...

PoetPeter: The whole world is investing heavily in nuclear power. We seem to be just about the only country that is not.
PoetPeter: The whole world is investing heavily in nuclear power. We seem to be just about the only country that is not. Duckorange

4:29pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Doughbun1958 says...

I aint a mamber of FoE or the tree hugging brigade but I am against this Plant for the following,1) We have an abundant supply of both wind & wave power sat in the English Channel just waiting to be harvested.2) I have watched many programmes regardin de-forestation and I do believe that this is wrong as it makes a lot of the Worlds Wildlife homeless. Orangutans butchered and slaughtered and their young sold off or left to fend for themselves, can this be right?. PLease dont reply with "Their Only Animals", they are, and they have feelings. So as there is an alternative can we think about using the natural elements to generate power. After all we are just custodians of the Planet, looking after it for future generations
I aint a mamber of FoE or the tree hugging brigade but I am against this Plant for the following,1) We have an abundant supply of both wind & wave power sat in the English Channel just waiting to be harvested.2) I have watched many programmes regardin de-forestation and I do believe that this is wrong as it makes a lot of the Worlds Wildlife homeless. Orangutans butchered and slaughtered and their young sold off or left to fend for themselves, can this be right?. PLease dont reply with "Their Only Animals", they are, and they have feelings. So as there is an alternative can we think about using the natural elements to generate power. After all we are just custodians of the Planet, looking after it for future generations Doughbun1958

4:38pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@Doughbun1958
I disagree with deforestation too. I disagree with harming animals or the environment. W4B's activities will do none of these. You're listening to propaganda not the facts. GO AND READ THE PLANNING APPLICATION. That's where you will find the truth. If you listen to the antis you are listening to lies.
I agree that we should invest more in wind/wave/tidal but there is a place for responsible biofuel too.
@Doughbun1958 I disagree with deforestation too. I disagree with harming animals or the environment. W4B's activities will do none of these. You're listening to propaganda not the facts. GO AND READ THE PLANNING APPLICATION. That's where you will find the truth. If you listen to the antis you are listening to lies. I agree that we should invest more in wind/wave/tidal but there is a place for responsible biofuel too. PoetPeter

5:15pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Mick from the rock says...

PoetPeter wrote:
Absolute nonsense. this bunch of rent-a-mob wallies are so badly misinformed you have to wonder whether they're actually spreading tehir lies deliberately. I mean they are either stupid or malicious.

The facts are that the proposed biofuel electricity generating plant is about as ecologically sound as is possible. Nutters like these have wound locals up with lies and propaganda. They're professional protesters. They'd be campaigning against motherhood and apple pie if they got the chance.

Portland should be welcoming this innovative, environmentally friendly business.
blind,deaf and stupid,sums you up Peter(and many more idiots like you)................
Bio fuel is DIRTY 3rd world 3rd rate fuel...bought over here from THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD(ring any bells there peter?)....every consumer in Wey an Port will be paying SUBSIDIES TO W4B(in other words profits to a handfull of shareholders) the space needed to grow enough for power plants just does not exist,its been used in food for centuries,but to start building plants even little ones that burn 40k tons a day??? what planet you morons on....Wind,sun and tide is the future......or there wont be one....
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: Absolute nonsense. this bunch of rent-a-mob wallies are so badly misinformed you have to wonder whether they're actually spreading tehir lies deliberately. I mean they are either stupid or malicious. The facts are that the proposed biofuel electricity generating plant is about as ecologically sound as is possible. Nutters like these have wound locals up with lies and propaganda. They're professional protesters. They'd be campaigning against motherhood and apple pie if they got the chance. Portland should be welcoming this innovative, environmentally friendly business.[/p][/quote]blind,deaf and stupid,sums you up Peter(and many more idiots like you)................ Bio fuel is DIRTY 3rd world 3rd rate fuel...bought over here from THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD(ring any bells there peter?)....every consumer in Wey an Port will be paying SUBSIDIES TO W4B(in other words profits to a handfull of shareholders) the space needed to grow enough for power plants just does not exist,its been used in food for centuries,but to start building plants even little ones that burn 40k tons a day??? what planet you morons on....Wind,sun and tide is the future......or there wont be one.... Mick from the rock

5:22pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Mcilrae says...

@peotpeter
I have not only read the planning application, I have poured over it with a fine tooth comb! Please, tell us what exactly leads you to believe that W4Bs plans will not lead to deforestation or take productive agricultural land out of the hands of subsistance farmers? Is it because they say they will ensure the sustainability of the fuel stock? If so, how on earth will they do this? In public meetings they say that it will be up to Ofgem to pass the fuel as sustainable, that they will have to report on where all of their fuel is coming from. Do you know that Ofgem have NO resources on the ground whatsoever to check or monitor the sustainability of palm plantations in Indonesia - which is where the planning application says the fuel for this power station will be coming from? Have you ever heard of indirect land use change? This is where additional demand for something, in this case palm oil, causes land clearance (deforestation in this case) to meet this extra demand, so even if the fuel they buy directly does not come from deforested land, they are placing additional demand for a material that is already causing environmental destruction and habitat loss. We need to dramatically reduce demand and consumption of palm oil to get the situation in Indonesia and elsewhere under control, and until we do there is no such thing as sustainable palm oil products (including stearin and oilein) and therefore no such thing as "responsible" biofuel power stations that clearly state in their planning documents that they will use oil palm products, or jatropha for that matter.
@peotpeter I have not only read the planning application, I have poured over it with a fine tooth comb! Please, tell us what exactly leads you to believe that W4Bs plans will not lead to deforestation or take productive agricultural land out of the hands of subsistance farmers? Is it because they say they will ensure the sustainability of the fuel stock? If so, how on earth will they do this? In public meetings they say that it will be up to Ofgem to pass the fuel as sustainable, that they will have to report on where all of their fuel is coming from. Do you know that Ofgem have NO resources on the ground whatsoever to check or monitor the sustainability of palm plantations in Indonesia - which is where the planning application says the fuel for this power station will be coming from? Have you ever heard of indirect land use change? This is where additional demand for something, in this case palm oil, causes land clearance (deforestation in this case) to meet this extra demand, so even if the fuel they buy directly does not come from deforested land, they are placing additional demand for a material that is already causing environmental destruction and habitat loss. We need to dramatically reduce demand and consumption of palm oil to get the situation in Indonesia and elsewhere under control, and until we do there is no such thing as sustainable palm oil products (including stearin and oilein) and therefore no such thing as "responsible" biofuel power stations that clearly state in their planning documents that they will use oil palm products, or jatropha for that matter. Mcilrae

5:36pm Mon 27 Sep 10

portland6 says...

Now, Mick, let's not sink to PoetPeter's level with the name-calling!

Incidentally, PP, if you live in Sutton Poyntz, why so bothered by this issue? You're 9 miles and 20 minutes drive away, unlikely to be bothered by the pollution caused. Have you, perhaps, invested...? I notice one of your supporters here calls themself "banknote"; good use of synecdoche!
Now, Mick, let's not sink to PoetPeter's level with the name-calling! Incidentally, PP, if you live in Sutton Poyntz, why so bothered by this issue? You're 9 miles and 20 minutes drive away, unlikely to be bothered by the pollution caused. Have you, perhaps, invested...? I notice one of your supporters here calls themself "banknote"; good use of synecdoche! portland6

5:50pm Mon 27 Sep 10

ohec says...

PoetPeter
Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant.
PoetPeter Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant. ohec

6:15pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@Mick from the rock
I'm not interested in debating with ignorant, rude, personally offensive Caps Lock addicts. Go suck on a petrol pump!
@Mcilrae
A coherent response from the antis. Thank you!
Yes, I do rely on the processes in place to ensure sustainability and I do recognise the dangers in that but what else can one do in this ever-changing, complex world? Palm oil offers the possibility of a cheap, sustainable source of biofuel. There are other alternatives, hemp and/or willow for instance which can be used through pyrolysis to produce bio-ethanol or burned directly and could be cultivated here. Sure there are horror stories about palm oil but W4B is following all the regulations put in place to ensure sustainability. They should be encouraged and carefully monitored to ensure compliance. Mindless, inane, ban-everything protestors are a waste of space and time. Maybe we could burn them instead?
@Mick from the rock I'm not interested in debating with ignorant, rude, personally offensive Caps Lock addicts. Go suck on a petrol pump! @Mcilrae A coherent response from the antis. Thank you! Yes, I do rely on the processes in place to ensure sustainability and I do recognise the dangers in that but what else can one do in this ever-changing, complex world? Palm oil offers the possibility of a cheap, sustainable source of biofuel. There are other alternatives, hemp and/or willow for instance which can be used through pyrolysis to produce bio-ethanol or burned directly and could be cultivated here. Sure there are horror stories about palm oil but W4B is following all the regulations put in place to ensure sustainability. They should be encouraged and carefully monitored to ensure compliance. Mindless, inane, ban-everything protestors are a waste of space and time. Maybe we could burn them instead? PoetPeter

6:21pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

ohec wrote:
PoetPeter
Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant.
I do solemnly swear and affirm that I have no vested interest or connection in any way shape or form with the power plant whatsoever, etc, etc, etc.

I have friends who live on Portland. I recognise the beauty and value of the place and I'm a British citizen. Does everything in your world have to be for direct personal gain?
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: PoetPeter Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant.[/p][/quote]I do solemnly swear and affirm that I have no vested interest or connection in any way shape or form with the power plant whatsoever, etc, etc, etc. I have friends who live on Portland. I recognise the beauty and value of the place and I'm a British citizen. Does everything in your world have to be for direct personal gain? PoetPeter

6:22pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

ohec wrote:
PoetPeter
Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant.
I do solemnly swear and affirm that I have no vested interest or connection in any way shape or form with the power plant whatsoever, etc, etc, etc.

I have friends who live on Portland. I recognise the beauty and value of the place and I'm a British citizen. Does everything in your world have to be for direct personal gain?
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: PoetPeter Seems very determined to support the power plant I wonder why? Could it just be that he lives at Sutton Poyntz and feels that it will have no effect on him or could there be a more sinister motive, either way I think the people of Portland should decide after all I don’t give a hoot what they build at Sutton Poyntz so why should PoetPeter care what happens on the island. I would like to offer PoetPeter the opportunity on this forum to declare that he has no vested interest in any way shape or form with the power plant.[/p][/quote]I do solemnly swear and affirm that I have no vested interest or connection in any way shape or form with the power plant whatsoever, etc, etc, etc. I have friends who live on Portland. I recognise the beauty and value of the place and I'm a British citizen. Does everything in your world have to be for direct personal gain? PoetPeter

9:19pm Mon 27 Sep 10

banknote says...

This discussion has gone a little silly. There is absolutely no need for name calling or to try and make points in caps - that is just a turn-off. Let's discuss issues rationally. There will always be different opinions - respect them.

Just for the record portland6, I have disagreed with PoetPeter on other occasions, as he will no doubt confirm, but I happen to support his views on this issue. Regarding my name, that is purely because I have been associated with printing (legally) banknotes and other high security documents for most of my life.

So let's get back on subject without silly accusations and discuss issues rationally
This discussion has gone a little silly. There is absolutely no need for name calling or to try and make points in caps - that is just a turn-off. Let's discuss issues rationally. There will always be different opinions - respect them. Just for the record portland6, I have disagreed with PoetPeter on other occasions, as he will no doubt confirm, but I happen to support his views on this issue. Regarding my name, that is purely because I have been associated with printing (legally) banknotes and other high security documents for most of my life. So let's get back on subject without silly accusations and discuss issues rationally banknote

9:30pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Scolopax says...

Taking neither side but on the subject of Facts, can someone please advise how much 'conventional fuel' the tankers will use to bring the 'sustainable fuel' to Portland (Save me reading the application) Thank you.
Taking neither side but on the subject of Facts, can someone please advise how much 'conventional fuel' the tankers will use to bring the 'sustainable fuel' to Portland (Save me reading the application) Thank you. Scolopax

9:50pm Mon 27 Sep 10

alibongo22 says...

PoetPeter wrote:
@Purbeckeco

Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is.
Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade.
You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on.
I`m not a leftie ,I dont eat brown rice or wear sandals and I have never protested about anything before this.I am a middle-aged married mother of 3 and grandma of 1. I just know that it is wrong to tanker this stuff half way around the world to our beautiful island to be burnt. We have wind (lots of it) sun (if we`re lucky)and are surrounded by the sea . We should be harnessing what is here naturally , you cant argue with that.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: @Purbeckeco Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is. Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade. You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on.[/p][/quote]I`m not a leftie ,I dont eat brown rice or wear sandals and I have never protested about anything before this.I am a middle-aged married mother of 3 and grandma of 1. I just know that it is wrong to tanker this stuff half way around the world to our beautiful island to be burnt. We have wind (lots of it) sun (if we`re lucky)and are surrounded by the sea . We should be harnessing what is here naturally , you cant argue with that. alibongo22

10:19pm Mon 27 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@alibongo22
I agree with your instincts. You're right but wind, wave and tide power will take time and investment and we need power today and tomorrow and the day after, without interruption. The thing is we don't live in a perfect world and presumably you have to pay for your electricity just like I do. We have to cope with market forces while moving towards a more sustainable future.
For instance, I deplore the fact that most of our electricity supply is owned by French companies. I think electricity should be nationalised, even though I'm a Tory.
@Scolopax
Your question goes to the nub of the issue. I think the answer is self-evident. Appalling as it may be, it must make economic sense otherwise they wouldn't do it!
Based on the best assessment of all the facts, the Portland plant is a good solution.
@alibongo22 I agree with your instincts. You're right but wind, wave and tide power will take time and investment and we need power today and tomorrow and the day after, without interruption. The thing is we don't live in a perfect world and presumably you have to pay for your electricity just like I do. We have to cope with market forces while moving towards a more sustainable future. For instance, I deplore the fact that most of our electricity supply is owned by French companies. I think electricity should be nationalised, even though I'm a Tory. @Scolopax Your question goes to the nub of the issue. I think the answer is self-evident. Appalling as it may be, it must make economic sense otherwise they wouldn't do it! Based on the best assessment of all the facts, the Portland plant is a good solution. PoetPeter

11:38pm Mon 27 Sep 10

Eggy bread says...

Did anybody notice the litter that was left behind? Let's start by doing small things to save the planet. Not driving "protesters" from god knows where causing untold pollution along our roads and then dropping cups and crisps packets. This plant is a bad idea and these type of people just get bad publicity and are actually doing themselves and the rest of us opposed to it a huge disservice.
Did anybody notice the litter that was left behind? Let's start by doing small things to save the planet. Not driving "protesters" from god knows where causing untold pollution along our roads and then dropping cups and crisps packets. This plant is a bad idea and these type of people just get bad publicity and are actually doing themselves and the rest of us opposed to it a huge disservice. Eggy bread

6:51am Tue 28 Sep 10

Scolopax says...

Whether it makes Economical sense is immaterial, if it requires a high yield of CO2 (the embedded cost) then it defeats the 'ecological' claims of the Plant hence it shouldn't be eligible for 'Offset Financial Support' (Sorry, uncertain of the correct title).
Whether it makes Economical sense is immaterial, if it requires a high yield of CO2 (the embedded cost) then it defeats the 'ecological' claims of the Plant hence it shouldn't be eligible for 'Offset Financial Support' (Sorry, uncertain of the correct title). Scolopax

9:01am Tue 28 Sep 10

Portland G says...

ohec wrote:
I like many other Portland residents are opposed to this scheme for many reasons the main one being I don’t want any vegetable matter burnt to produce electricity, there is only one real answer to provide us with the amount of electricity we need and that is nuclear power. By all means use other means of harnessing our planets natural power but the whole idea of burning oil is obscene and like a lot of things they will turn around in 20/30 years time and say we would never have done that if we had realised the affect that it has had on our environment and peoples health.
Interesting quote this. I wonder what uproar would be created if W4B decided to change their plans for this biofuel plant to a nuclear one instead. The only good thing I can see from the demo on Saturday was that WPBC gained quite a lot of extra revenue from carpark charges judging by the amount of cars parked in the car park when I came through after work
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: I like many other Portland residents are opposed to this scheme for many reasons the main one being I don’t want any vegetable matter burnt to produce electricity, there is only one real answer to provide us with the amount of electricity we need and that is nuclear power. By all means use other means of harnessing our planets natural power but the whole idea of burning oil is obscene and like a lot of things they will turn around in 20/30 years time and say we would never have done that if we had realised the affect that it has had on our environment and peoples health.[/p][/quote]Interesting quote this. I wonder what uproar would be created if W4B decided to change their plans for this biofuel plant to a nuclear one instead. The only good thing I can see from the demo on Saturday was that WPBC gained quite a lot of extra revenue from carpark charges judging by the amount of cars parked in the car park when I came through after work Portland G

9:24am Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

PoetPeter wrote:
@Purbeckeco

Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is.
Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade.
You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on.
Your ignorance is breathtaking!

Since when has leveling thousands of acres of prime rainforest, driving out the natives at gunpoint, wiping out the wildlife and replanting it with mile after mile after mile of palm been even remotely ecologically sound?

Let me put it another way... How about everyone has to move out of Portland - with no compensation - so the the entire island can be reduced to motorway hardcore? That would be acceptable to you? You cannot say yes to one proposition and no to the other. That would make you a hypocrite, as well as foolish.

The jobs this will "create" are a vapid as the proposal. The construction will require specialist skills not found in the southwest, let alone on Portland. They will probably be brought in from Italy, which does have a suitable skills pool. Remember the similar plant being constructed on Humberside? The jobs created once the plant has been built will be equally out of bounds to Portlanders since there are very few unemployed oil-refinery workers on the island - and W4B isn't going to squander shareholder's money training them.

Now what about W4B? This is a tin-pot little company run from a cottage just outside Salisbury (you can check all this out with a few simple Internet searches). It's principal is a well-known villain in a number of "eco-friendly" projects. He is so eco-friendly that he has consistently opposed projects around Salisbury, for example, to build a wind farm, because it would offend his view.

Instead he proposes building an oil-refinery on Portland, next to a major residential area, overlooking several major tourist attractions, in the middle of one of the UK's most environmentally sensitive locations. It will send a pollution plume across Weymouth Bay and Purbeck as far as Poole and Bournemouth.

And the palm oil itself is going to be shipped half-way around the world to be processed in the UK when there are plenty of other capable facilities.

All this is acceptable to you? Having Indonesian families thrown out of their homes, rare and vital habitat destroyed? For what?

A few barrels of oil produced by a corrupt bunch of money-grabbing fat cats who don't give a flying French Connection UK for you, for the people of Weymouth and Portland, for the people of Indonesia, for the rain forest - for anything in fact other than their own self-enrichment.

If you are happy with that, them God help you.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: @Purbeckeco Your agenda is clear just from your name. Those of us who have balance in our lives and opinions don't need to shout about our "eco-ness". It's an essential part of life. We;'re not in the business of opposing everything, whatever it is. Personally I wouldn't want to be associated with anything to do with FoE. I think it was a mistake by W4B to play this card although I can understand its concern to get its point across in the face of the sandals and brown rice brigade. You're just another distributor of misinformation. If you'd bothered to look at W4B's planning application you'd see that it's at the leading edge of environmentally conscious power generation. Blanket opposition to monoculture and agrofuels is just the sort of inane, absurd, fantasy nonsense that FoE makes its living on.[/p][/quote]Your ignorance is breathtaking! Since when has leveling thousands of acres of prime rainforest, driving out the natives at gunpoint, wiping out the wildlife and replanting it with mile after mile after mile of palm been even remotely ecologically sound? Let me put it another way... How about everyone has to move out of Portland - with no compensation - so the the entire island can be reduced to motorway hardcore? That would be acceptable to you? You cannot say yes to one proposition and no to the other. That would make you a hypocrite, as well as foolish. The jobs this will "create" are a vapid as the proposal. The construction will require specialist skills not found in the southwest, let alone on Portland. They will probably be brought in from Italy, which does have a suitable skills pool. Remember the similar plant being constructed on Humberside? The jobs created once the plant has been built will be equally out of bounds to Portlanders since there are very few unemployed oil-refinery workers on the island - and W4B isn't going to squander shareholder's money training them. Now what about W4B? This is a tin-pot little company run from a cottage just outside Salisbury (you can check all this out with a few simple Internet searches). It's principal is a well-known villain in a number of "eco-friendly" projects. He is so eco-friendly that he has consistently opposed projects around Salisbury, for example, to build a wind farm, because it would offend his view. Instead he proposes building an oil-refinery on Portland, next to a major residential area, overlooking several major tourist attractions, in the middle of one of the UK's most environmentally sensitive locations. It will send a pollution plume across Weymouth Bay and Purbeck as far as Poole and Bournemouth. And the palm oil itself is going to be shipped half-way around the world to be processed in the UK when there are plenty of other capable facilities. All this is acceptable to you? Having Indonesian families thrown out of their homes, rare and vital habitat destroyed? For what? A few barrels of oil produced by a corrupt bunch of money-grabbing fat cats who don't give a flying French Connection UK for you, for the people of Weymouth and Portland, for the people of Indonesia, for the rain forest - for anything in fact other than their own self-enrichment. If you are happy with that, them God help you. FitterC

9:28am Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

PoetPeter wrote:
banknote wrote:
Well said, PoetPeter.
Thanks.
I've been to WPBC's offices and read through the two large boxes that contain all the details of W4b'S planning application. How many of the protestors have done that?
Sorry Portland6, I don't doubt your genuine concern but you're being manipulated and terrorised by misinformation and propaganda along with hundreds of others. Find out the facts for yourself. Don't believe a word the eco-terrorists say.
I am not an eco-terrorist. I am a company director. The people included five other company directors to my certain knowledge, a number of teachers, two off-duty policemen, three paramedics, one Conservative party worker, two from Labour... These are not eco-terrorists either.

These are people horrified by the blatant misinformation poured out by W4B. The information in W&PBC offices is not worth the paper it is printed on.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banknote[/bold] wrote: Well said, PoetPeter.[/p][/quote]Thanks. I've been to WPBC's offices and read through the two large boxes that contain all the details of W4b'S planning application. How many of the protestors have done that? Sorry Portland6, I don't doubt your genuine concern but you're being manipulated and terrorised by misinformation and propaganda along with hundreds of others. Find out the facts for yourself. Don't believe a word the eco-terrorists say.[/p][/quote]I am not an eco-terrorist. I am a company director. The people included five other company directors to my certain knowledge, a number of teachers, two off-duty policemen, three paramedics, one Conservative party worker, two from Labour... These are not eco-terrorists either. These are people horrified by the blatant misinformation poured out by W4B. The information in W&PBC offices is not worth the paper it is printed on. FitterC

9:30am Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

Doughbun1958 wrote:
I aint a mamber of FoE or the tree hugging brigade but I am against this Plant for the following,1) We have an abundant supply of both wind & wave power sat in the English Channel just waiting to be harvested.2) I have watched many programmes regardin de-forestation and I do believe that this is wrong as it makes a lot of the Worlds Wildlife homeless. Orangutans butchered and slaughtered and their young sold off or left to fend for themselves, can this be right?. PLease dont reply with "Their Only Animals", they are, and they have feelings. So as there is an alternative can we think about using the natural elements to generate power. After all we are just custodians of the Planet, looking after it for future generations
Well said Doughbun...
[quote][p][bold]Doughbun1958[/bold] wrote: I aint a mamber of FoE or the tree hugging brigade but I am against this Plant for the following,1) We have an abundant supply of both wind & wave power sat in the English Channel just waiting to be harvested.2) I have watched many programmes regardin de-forestation and I do believe that this is wrong as it makes a lot of the Worlds Wildlife homeless. Orangutans butchered and slaughtered and their young sold off or left to fend for themselves, can this be right?. PLease dont reply with "Their Only Animals", they are, and they have feelings. So as there is an alternative can we think about using the natural elements to generate power. After all we are just custodians of the Planet, looking after it for future generations[/p][/quote]Well said Doughbun... FitterC

10:56am Tue 28 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@FitterC
No it's not my ignorance that's breathtaking, it's the stranglehold that self-righteous and selfish busybodies like you try to impose on the rest of us. And please, tell em when was being a "company director" any qualification of worth or value? It's the badge that's worn by all the worst fraudsters and thieves. Is that really the way you want to present yourself?
Your argument is pathetically poorly made. Your rant about deforestation and destruction of wildlife completely ignores what I said earlier in this thread so whose "ignorance" is really on show here?
Your ridiculous proposal about Portland is the product of a feeble mind and your attempt to stitch me into a corner of yoruy choosing is puerile. Who or what do you think you are?
You obviously think you are morally and intellectually superior. Your dreadful arrogance and conceit is matched only by your inability to participate in a reasonable debate. All you can manage is regurgitated scaremongering, sensationalist drivel. An eco-terrorist is exactly what you are and your cronies too. So what? The whole world, W4B, the planning process, WPBC - everyone is corrupt except you? Everyone is a liar except you? No one else has any valid point of view except you? Only you know the truth?
I think readers of this thread will make up their own minds who is ignorant, who is trying to find the truth and who is just a loudmouthed troublemaker.
@FitterC No it's not my ignorance that's breathtaking, it's the stranglehold that self-righteous and selfish busybodies like you try to impose on the rest of us. And please, tell em when was being a "company director" any qualification of worth or value? It's the badge that's worn by all the worst fraudsters and thieves. Is that really the way you want to present yourself? Your argument is pathetically poorly made. Your rant about deforestation and destruction of wildlife completely ignores what I said earlier in this thread so whose "ignorance" is really on show here? Your ridiculous proposal about Portland is the product of a feeble mind and your attempt to stitch me into a corner of yoruy choosing is puerile. Who or what do you think you are? You obviously think you are morally and intellectually superior. Your dreadful arrogance and conceit is matched only by your inability to participate in a reasonable debate. All you can manage is regurgitated scaremongering, sensationalist drivel. An eco-terrorist is exactly what you are and your cronies too. So what? The whole world, W4B, the planning process, WPBC - everyone is corrupt except you? Everyone is a liar except you? No one else has any valid point of view except you? Only you know the truth? I think readers of this thread will make up their own minds who is ignorant, who is trying to find the truth and who is just a loudmouthed troublemaker. PoetPeter

12:09pm Tue 28 Sep 10

Islandjim says...

You've all turned very childish in your bid to be "the one who know's the most" when the simple fact is why are we even considering building a fired powerstation in an area with wind, wave, tide and solar energy in abundance!
You've all turned very childish in your bid to be "the one who know's the most" when the simple fact is why are we even considering building a fired powerstation in an area with wind, wave, tide and solar energy in abundance! Islandjim

1:50pm Tue 28 Sep 10

radiator says...

On a lighter note why not burn cannabis it would perhaps cheer some of you guys up a bit if the wind was in the right direction.
On a lighter note why not burn cannabis it would perhaps cheer some of you guys up a bit if the wind was in the right direction. radiator

3:22pm Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

PoetPeter wrote:
@FitterC
No it's not my ignorance that's breathtaking, it's the stranglehold that self-righteous and selfish busybodies like you try to impose on the rest of us. And please, tell em when was being a "company director" any qualification of worth or value? It's the badge that's worn by all the worst fraudsters and thieves. Is that really the way you want to present yourself?
Your argument is pathetically poorly made. Your rant about deforestation and destruction of wildlife completely ignores what I said earlier in this thread so whose "ignorance" is really on show here?
Your ridiculous proposal about Portland is the product of a feeble mind and your attempt to stitch me into a corner of yoruy choosing is puerile. Who or what do you think you are?
You obviously think you are morally and intellectually superior. Your dreadful arrogance and conceit is matched only by your inability to participate in a reasonable debate. All you can manage is regurgitated scaremongering, sensationalist drivel. An eco-terrorist is exactly what you are and your cronies too. So what? The whole world, W4B, the planning process, WPBC - everyone is corrupt except you? Everyone is a liar except you? No one else has any valid point of view except you? Only you know the truth?
I think readers of this thread will make up their own minds who is ignorant, who is trying to find the truth and who is just a loudmouthed troublemaker.
You are a very, very sad man, Poet Peter. You have no wit, no brain, no imagination. You deserve nothing. You are beneath contempt. You are fatuous, ignorant and a waste of space on this over-polluted planet.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: @FitterC No it's not my ignorance that's breathtaking, it's the stranglehold that self-righteous and selfish busybodies like you try to impose on the rest of us. And please, tell em when was being a "company director" any qualification of worth or value? It's the badge that's worn by all the worst fraudsters and thieves. Is that really the way you want to present yourself? Your argument is pathetically poorly made. Your rant about deforestation and destruction of wildlife completely ignores what I said earlier in this thread so whose "ignorance" is really on show here? Your ridiculous proposal about Portland is the product of a feeble mind and your attempt to stitch me into a corner of yoruy choosing is puerile. Who or what do you think you are? You obviously think you are morally and intellectually superior. Your dreadful arrogance and conceit is matched only by your inability to participate in a reasonable debate. All you can manage is regurgitated scaremongering, sensationalist drivel. An eco-terrorist is exactly what you are and your cronies too. So what? The whole world, W4B, the planning process, WPBC - everyone is corrupt except you? Everyone is a liar except you? No one else has any valid point of view except you? Only you know the truth? I think readers of this thread will make up their own minds who is ignorant, who is trying to find the truth and who is just a loudmouthed troublemaker.[/p][/quote]You are a very, very sad man, Poet Peter. You have no wit, no brain, no imagination. You deserve nothing. You are beneath contempt. You are fatuous, ignorant and a waste of space on this over-polluted planet. FitterC

3:28pm Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

I find it astonishing that correspondents here are so morally bankrupt that they are willing to see indigenous people forced from their land at gun point, rain forest leveled and wildlife destroyed for a few gallons of some of the most inefficient fuel it is possible to produce.

I am minded of the attitude of Nazis towards the Jews.
I find it astonishing that correspondents here are so morally bankrupt that they are willing to see indigenous people forced from their land at gun point, rain forest leveled and wildlife destroyed for a few gallons of some of the most inefficient fuel it is possible to produce. I am minded of the attitude of Nazis towards the Jews. FitterC

4:16pm Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

Precisely Island Jim... Part of the answer lies in the very fact that Richard Gudgeon is vehemently opposed to any form of alternative energy other than bio-fuels. He has been instrumental in campaigns to stop them being built. He has advised a number of Government committees against any form of sustainable energy use and has lobbied Portland Port Authority, DCC and others to obstruct possible alternative developments genuinely sustainable energy sources.

None of us know all the answers. If we did then the stark choices facing us today would be far more palatable.
Precisely Island Jim... Part of the answer lies in the very fact that Richard Gudgeon is vehemently opposed to any form of alternative energy other than bio-fuels. He has been instrumental in campaigns to stop them being built. He has advised a number of Government committees against any form of sustainable energy use and has lobbied Portland Port Authority, DCC and others to obstruct possible alternative developments genuinely sustainable energy sources. None of us know all the answers. If we did then the stark choices facing us today would be far more palatable. FitterC

4:19pm Tue 28 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

@FitterC

Nothing can more eloquently describe the sort of person you are than your own words. I don't need to add anything. The truth about you is crystal clear.
@FitterC Nothing can more eloquently describe the sort of person you are than your own words. I don't need to add anything. The truth about you is crystal clear. PoetPeter

4:27pm Tue 28 Sep 10

Islandjim says...

Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago!
We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that!
Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago! We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that! Islandjim

4:59pm Tue 28 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

Islandjim wrote:
Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago!
We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that!
I deplore the lack of investment in wind, wave and tidal. My own view is that tidal energy offers the greatest potential.
The great difficulty with this debate is that it is hugely complex and market forces are probably the most significant factor. The reality, for those who are intellectually capable of facing up to it, is that if we want to maintain our power supply, idealistic solutions are often just not possible. The "least worst" is often the best that we can do.
Of course, those that throw their toys out of the pram don't help the problem or advance their own cause. They just make the problem worse as well as revealing their own inadequacies.
It's ridiculous in a place like Portland that there isn't more wind power and that wave and tidal aren't being developed. Part of the problem is short-sighted, selfish "antis" who use vastly exaggerated and inflammatory language and create circumstances where no business wants to invest. I mean, would you come to Portland and invest your own money when there are people ready to be as offensive as some of those above towards anyone who is trying to be constructive? i don't think I would. I'd say let them rot in their own selfish, unpleasantness.
The biofuel plant is not a perfect solution but it is a practical and reasonable one and much less environmentally damaging than many others. The hysterical propaganda that some are spouting is just an attempt to "fit up" a company that is making an effort, to tar an honest enterprise with bad practices that are nothing to do with them.
Unfortunately, some people are just like that. The best thing is to ignore them and continue the debate with those that have self control and common sense.
[quote][p][bold]Islandjim[/bold] wrote: Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago! We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that![/p][/quote]I deplore the lack of investment in wind, wave and tidal. My own view is that tidal energy offers the greatest potential. The great difficulty with this debate is that it is hugely complex and market forces are probably the most significant factor. The reality, for those who are intellectually capable of facing up to it, is that if we want to maintain our power supply, idealistic solutions are often just not possible. The "least worst" is often the best that we can do. Of course, those that throw their toys out of the pram don't help the problem or advance their own cause. They just make the problem worse as well as revealing their own inadequacies. It's ridiculous in a place like Portland that there isn't more wind power and that wave and tidal aren't being developed. Part of the problem is short-sighted, selfish "antis" who use vastly exaggerated and inflammatory language and create circumstances where no business wants to invest. I mean, would you come to Portland and invest your own money when there are people ready to be as offensive as some of those above towards anyone who is trying to be constructive? i don't think I would. I'd say let them rot in their own selfish, unpleasantness. The biofuel plant is not a perfect solution but it is a practical and reasonable one and much less environmentally damaging than many others. The hysterical propaganda that some are spouting is just an attempt to "fit up" a company that is making an effort, to tar an honest enterprise with bad practices that are nothing to do with them. Unfortunately, some people are just like that. The best thing is to ignore them and continue the debate with those that have self control and common sense. PoetPeter

5:20pm Tue 28 Sep 10

FitterC says...

PoetPeter wrote:
Islandjim wrote:
Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago!
We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that!
I deplore the lack of investment in wind, wave and tidal. My own view is that tidal energy offers the greatest potential.
The great difficulty with this debate is that it is hugely complex and market forces are probably the most significant factor. The reality, for those who are intellectually capable of facing up to it, is that if we want to maintain our power supply, idealistic solutions are often just not possible. The "least worst" is often the best that we can do.
Of course, those that throw their toys out of the pram don't help the problem or advance their own cause. They just make the problem worse as well as revealing their own inadequacies.
It's ridiculous in a place like Portland that there isn't more wind power and that wave and tidal aren't being developed. Part of the problem is short-sighted, selfish "antis" who use vastly exaggerated and inflammatory language and create circumstances where no business wants to invest. I mean, would you come to Portland and invest your own money when there are people ready to be as offensive as some of those above towards anyone who is trying to be constructive? i don't think I would. I'd say let them rot in their own selfish, unpleasantness.
The biofuel plant is not a perfect solution but it is a practical and reasonable one and much less environmentally damaging than many others. The hysterical propaganda that some are spouting is just an attempt to "fit up" a company that is making an effort, to tar an honest enterprise with bad practices that are nothing to do with them.
Unfortunately, some people are just like that. The best thing is to ignore them and continue the debate with those that have self control and common sense.
I agree with almost all of Poet Peter's argument. However, I do not agree that the refinery being proposed is the "least worst" option. To the contrary, it is a very bad option. It uses first generation bio-fuel inputs, specifically palm oil. This is an ecologically damaging input since it relies upon significant deforestation with the consequent burn off putting more carbon into the atmosphere than can be offset. It also causes an irreversible destruction of habitat with disastrous consequences for the wildlife. Palm oil has a value as a food product, especially in Asia, and this sort of use leads to speculation in the markets that pushes its price above the limits that can be afforded by people in its traditional market. They don't have an alternative. Finally, it has a huge human cost in terms of indigenous peoples displaced and even killed to get them off the land required for the plantations.

All of these issues have been acknowledged by the UK and EU authorities, albeit belatedly, following the initial rush to "go green".

To my mind, if a bio-fuel plant is to be built at all, it should wait upon the economic availability of second- and third-generation bio-fuel inputs (cf. http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Biofuel for a useful summary).

However, the particular position of the Weymouth & Portland area makes it especially suitable for wind-power generation. A suitable size wind farm in Lyme Bay would have additional benefits in providing a breeding area for fish stocks that would spill over in the local catch areas.

I too find tide energy interesting and I would hope that a suitable technology will one day be found that could be employed locally. At present it is my understanding that there are technical issues that need resolving.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Islandjim[/bold] wrote: Peter...putting everything else aside even you cant justify putting a bio-plant on Portland when a perfectably feasable wind farm was thrown out 7 years ago! We obvoiusly dont NEED the power otherwise they would have built that![/p][/quote]I deplore the lack of investment in wind, wave and tidal. My own view is that tidal energy offers the greatest potential. The great difficulty with this debate is that it is hugely complex and market forces are probably the most significant factor. The reality, for those who are intellectually capable of facing up to it, is that if we want to maintain our power supply, idealistic solutions are often just not possible. The "least worst" is often the best that we can do. Of course, those that throw their toys out of the pram don't help the problem or advance their own cause. They just make the problem worse as well as revealing their own inadequacies. It's ridiculous in a place like Portland that there isn't more wind power and that wave and tidal aren't being developed. Part of the problem is short-sighted, selfish "antis" who use vastly exaggerated and inflammatory language and create circumstances where no business wants to invest. I mean, would you come to Portland and invest your own money when there are people ready to be as offensive as some of those above towards anyone who is trying to be constructive? i don't think I would. I'd say let them rot in their own selfish, unpleasantness. The biofuel plant is not a perfect solution but it is a practical and reasonable one and much less environmentally damaging than many others. The hysterical propaganda that some are spouting is just an attempt to "fit up" a company that is making an effort, to tar an honest enterprise with bad practices that are nothing to do with them. Unfortunately, some people are just like that. The best thing is to ignore them and continue the debate with those that have self control and common sense.[/p][/quote]I agree with almost all of Poet Peter's argument. However, I do not agree that the refinery being proposed is the "least worst" option. To the contrary, it is a very bad option. It uses first generation bio-fuel inputs, specifically palm oil. This is an ecologically damaging input since it relies upon significant deforestation with the consequent burn off putting more carbon into the atmosphere than can be offset. It also causes an irreversible destruction of habitat with disastrous consequences for the wildlife. Palm oil has a value as a food product, especially in Asia, and this sort of use leads to speculation in the markets that pushes its price above the limits that can be afforded by people in its traditional market. They don't have an alternative. Finally, it has a huge human cost in terms of indigenous peoples displaced and even killed to get them off the land required for the plantations. All of these issues have been acknowledged by the UK and EU authorities, albeit belatedly, following the initial rush to "go green". To my mind, if a bio-fuel plant is to be built at all, it should wait upon the economic availability of second- and third-generation bio-fuel inputs (cf. http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Biofuel for a useful summary). However, the particular position of the Weymouth & Portland area makes it especially suitable for wind-power generation. A suitable size wind farm in Lyme Bay would have additional benefits in providing a breeding area for fish stocks that would spill over in the local catch areas. I too find tide energy interesting and I would hope that a suitable technology will one day be found that could be employed locally. At present it is my understanding that there are technical issues that need resolving. FitterC

8:12pm Tue 28 Sep 10

banknote says...

PoetPeter,

Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog.
PoetPeter, Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog. banknote

8:21pm Tue 28 Sep 10

banknote says...

banknote wrote:
PoetPeter, Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog.
Sorry - meant 7.52pm entry
[quote][p][bold]banknote[/bold] wrote: PoetPeter, Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog.[/p][/quote]Sorry - meant 7.52pm entry banknote

9:01pm Tue 28 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

banknote wrote:
banknote wrote:
PoetPeter, Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog.
Sorry - meant 7.52pm entry
Thx
[quote][p][bold]banknote[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]banknote[/bold] wrote: PoetPeter, Please refer to my 8.02pm entry on the "Road Rage" blog.[/p][/quote]Sorry - meant 7.52pm entry[/p][/quote]Thx PoetPeter

8:52am Wed 29 Sep 10

Mcilrae says...

PoetPeter wrote:
@alibongo22
I agree with your instincts. You're right but wind, wave and tide power will take time and investment and we need power today and tomorrow and the day after, without interruption. The thing is we don't live in a perfect world and presumably you have to pay for your electricity just like I do. We have to cope with market forces while moving towards a more sustainable future.
For instance, I deplore the fact that most of our electricity supply is owned by French companies. I think electricity should be nationalised, even though I'm a Tory.
@Scolopax
Your question goes to the nub of the issue. I think the answer is self-evident. Appalling as it may be, it must make economic sense otherwise they wouldn't do it!
Based on the best assessment of all the facts, the Portland plant is a good solution.
To clarify, it does not make economic sense, it is a false ecomomy made possible only by massive subsidies, paid for by the public.

The only reason W4B are able to build this biofuel power station is because they are eligible for subsidies in the form of Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs). Where does this money come from? From all of us, every time we pay an electricity bill. Under the current ROCs banding this plant would get the maximum subsidies, 2 ROCs for every megawatt hour of electricity produced - the same level as off-shore wind. The ROCs scheme was established to help meet the UK target of 15% of our electricity being generated from renewable sources by 2015. When you take into account the full carbon life-cycle of palm oil it is worse than fossil fuels, which makes a complete mockery of what the ROCs scheme was set up to achieve. Add to this the full environmental and social cost of biofuels, as outlined by many in this comments section, and it soon adds up to nothing more than money for old rope. This is our money, we are the ones paying for the subsidies through our energy bills, we are propping up government schemes through our taxes, we have a right to question in the strongest possible terms how this money is spent.

This proposed biofuel power station isn't a solution for anything, it will cost us far more in subsidies than anything it will ever meaningfully contribute to the local economy and, if we allow these sorts of schemes all over the country, it could ultimately cost us the earth.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: @alibongo22 I agree with your instincts. You're right but wind, wave and tide power will take time and investment and we need power today and tomorrow and the day after, without interruption. The thing is we don't live in a perfect world and presumably you have to pay for your electricity just like I do. We have to cope with market forces while moving towards a more sustainable future. For instance, I deplore the fact that most of our electricity supply is owned by French companies. I think electricity should be nationalised, even though I'm a Tory. @Scolopax Your question goes to the nub of the issue. I think the answer is self-evident. Appalling as it may be, it must make economic sense otherwise they wouldn't do it! Based on the best assessment of all the facts, the Portland plant is a good solution.[/p][/quote]To clarify, it does not make economic sense, it is a false ecomomy made possible only by massive subsidies, paid for by the public. The only reason W4B are able to build this biofuel power station is because they are eligible for subsidies in the form of Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs). Where does this money come from? From all of us, every time we pay an electricity bill. Under the current ROCs banding this plant would get the maximum subsidies, 2 ROCs for every megawatt hour of electricity produced - the same level as off-shore wind. The ROCs scheme was established to help meet the UK target of 15% of our electricity being generated from renewable sources by 2015. When you take into account the full carbon life-cycle of palm oil it is worse than fossil fuels, which makes a complete mockery of what the ROCs scheme was set up to achieve. Add to this the full environmental and social cost of biofuels, as outlined by many in this comments section, and it soon adds up to nothing more than money for old rope. This is our money, we are the ones paying for the subsidies through our energy bills, we are propping up government schemes through our taxes, we have a right to question in the strongest possible terms how this money is spent. This proposed biofuel power station isn't a solution for anything, it will cost us far more in subsidies than anything it will ever meaningfully contribute to the local economy and, if we allow these sorts of schemes all over the country, it could ultimately cost us the earth. Mcilrae

9:15am Wed 29 Sep 10

Islandjim says...

FitterC wrote:
Precisely Island Jim... Part of the answer lies in the very fact that Richard Gudgeon is vehemently opposed to any form of alternative energy other than bio-fuels. He has been instrumental in campaigns to stop them being built. He has advised a number of Government committees against any form of sustainable energy use and has lobbied Portland Port Authority, DCC and others to obstruct possible alternative developments genuinely sustainable energy sources. None of us know all the answers. If we did then the stark choices facing us today would be far more palatable.
I may have found a good reason why Mr Gudgeon likes bio-fuel so much.
In May 2006 he was given a share option from D1 oils (bio-fuel manufacturer) of 100,372 shares @ £2.64 until 2015. So in essence if he can increase the countrys need for bio-fuel significantly enough to increase the value of those shares before 2015, he stands to make a small...well actualy rather large fourtune. The problem is there only currently worth 4p each, so if i was him i'd be pushing the bio-fuel agenda!
[quote][p][bold]FitterC[/bold] wrote: Precisely Island Jim... Part of the answer lies in the very fact that Richard Gudgeon is vehemently opposed to any form of alternative energy other than bio-fuels. He has been instrumental in campaigns to stop them being built. He has advised a number of Government committees against any form of sustainable energy use and has lobbied Portland Port Authority, DCC and others to obstruct possible alternative developments genuinely sustainable energy sources. None of us know all the answers. If we did then the stark choices facing us today would be far more palatable.[/p][/quote]I may have found a good reason why Mr Gudgeon likes bio-fuel so much. In May 2006 he was given a share option from D1 oils (bio-fuel manufacturer) of 100,372 shares @ £2.64 until 2015. So in essence if he can increase the countrys need for bio-fuel significantly enough to increase the value of those shares before 2015, he stands to make a small...well actualy rather large fourtune. The problem is there only currently worth 4p each, so if i was him i'd be pushing the bio-fuel agenda! Islandjim

9:38am Wed 29 Sep 10

wyke resident says...

I see this lot turned up in a diesel powered coach. Don't do as I do, do as I say!

security word role-lazy
I see this lot turned up in a diesel powered coach. Don't do as I do, do as I say! security word role-lazy wyke resident

10:57am Wed 29 Sep 10

valhalla says...

Last winter I walked along the beach at Overcombe, it was beautiful, clear frosty air, utterly still, waves no more than an inch high lapping silently at my feet. Not a kilowatt of renewable energy to be seen for miles.
We can plant palm oil trees across the desert areas of the world and improve the environment by growing it.
Portland is perfect site for a plant like this. Direct deliveries by sea. Any exhaust blowing out to sea. There would be no risk from pollution. The CO2 emmissions would blow out directly to sea. Do the protesters think that environmental health officers never visit plants like these?
As a Portlander, if the Beach road cable blows under it's ever increasing load, what is the official plan, mass evacuation of Portland?
Last winter I walked along the beach at Overcombe, it was beautiful, clear frosty air, utterly still, waves no more than an inch high lapping silently at my feet. Not a kilowatt of renewable energy to be seen for miles. We can plant palm oil trees across the desert areas of the world and improve the environment by growing it. Portland is perfect site for a plant like this. Direct deliveries by sea. Any exhaust blowing out to sea. There would be no risk from pollution. The CO2 emmissions would blow out directly to sea. Do the protesters think that environmental health officers never visit plants like these? As a Portlander, if the Beach road cable blows under it's ever increasing load, what is the official plan, mass evacuation of Portland? valhalla

2:35pm Wed 29 Sep 10

Mick from the rock says...

PoetPeter wrote:
@Mick from the rock
I'm not interested in debating with ignorant, rude, personally offensive Caps Lock addicts. Go suck on a petrol pump!
@Mcilrae
A coherent response from the antis. Thank you!
Yes, I do rely on the processes in place to ensure sustainability and I do recognise the dangers in that but what else can one do in this ever-changing, complex world? Palm oil offers the possibility of a cheap, sustainable source of biofuel. There are other alternatives, hemp and/or willow for instance which can be used through pyrolysis to produce bio-ethanol or burned directly and could be cultivated here. Sure there are horror stories about palm oil but W4B is following all the regulations put in place to ensure sustainability. They should be encouraged and carefully monitored to ensure compliance. Mindless, inane, ban-everything protestors are a waste of space and time. Maybe we could burn them instead?
nothing to add,if you beleive w4b planning application then you are more blind deaf an dumb than your comments suggest......even the planners dont KNOW THE EXACT TYPE OF FUEL,they dont even know that cyanide is (even though tiny ammounts) ARE PRODUCED.plus the fact there is not enough land (arible)the whole concept is one big con and only idiots fall for it.I WAS AT THE MEETING WITH W4B,and asked Richard Gudgeon a direct question which was who makes a profit out of this,his answer was SHAREHOLDERS,paid through local uttility bill payers.........becau
se of how its grown and where it comes from it CANT be GREEN energy........just 1 big con
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: @Mick from the rock I'm not interested in debating with ignorant, rude, personally offensive Caps Lock addicts. Go suck on a petrol pump! @Mcilrae A coherent response from the antis. Thank you! Yes, I do rely on the processes in place to ensure sustainability and I do recognise the dangers in that but what else can one do in this ever-changing, complex world? Palm oil offers the possibility of a cheap, sustainable source of biofuel. There are other alternatives, hemp and/or willow for instance which can be used through pyrolysis to produce bio-ethanol or burned directly and could be cultivated here. Sure there are horror stories about palm oil but W4B is following all the regulations put in place to ensure sustainability. They should be encouraged and carefully monitored to ensure compliance. Mindless, inane, ban-everything protestors are a waste of space and time. Maybe we could burn them instead?[/p][/quote]nothing to add,if you beleive w4b planning application then you are more blind deaf an dumb than your comments suggest......even the planners dont KNOW THE EXACT TYPE OF FUEL,they dont even know that cyanide is (even though tiny ammounts) ARE PRODUCED.plus the fact there is not enough land (arible)the whole concept is one big con and only idiots fall for it.I WAS AT THE MEETING WITH W4B,and asked Richard Gudgeon a direct question which was who makes a profit out of this,his answer was SHAREHOLDERS,paid through local uttility bill payers.........becau se of how its grown and where it comes from it CANT be GREEN energy........just 1 big con Mick from the rock

2:39pm Wed 29 Sep 10

Mick from the rock says...

ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE
ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE Mick from the rock

2:43pm Wed 29 Sep 10

PoetPeter says...

Mick from the rock wrote:
ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE
Innit bruv
[quote][p][bold]Mick from the rock[/bold] wrote: ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE[/p][/quote]Innit bruv PoetPeter

6:36pm Thu 30 Sep 10

FitterC says...

PoetPeter wrote:
Mick from the rock wrote:
ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE
Innit bruv
Mick's correct. Richard Gudgeon is one of the arch-conmen of our time. He has zero morality and is quite happy to earn money out of Indonesian villagers being beaten, shot, stabbed and ever so slightly killed if they don't get off the land he and his cronies want to grow palm-oil on.

He is a liar, a cheat, and accessory to crimes of violence.

He is a criminal.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mick from the rock[/bold] wrote: ps THIS ISNT THE FIRST CON THAT RICHARD GUDGEON HAS PULLED CHECK OUT HIS HISTORY,LIKE I HAVE[/p][/quote]Innit bruv[/p][/quote]Mick's correct. Richard Gudgeon is one of the arch-conmen of our time. He has zero morality and is quite happy to earn money out of Indonesian villagers being beaten, shot, stabbed and ever so slightly killed if they don't get off the land he and his cronies want to grow palm-oil on. He is a liar, a cheat, and accessory to crimes of violence. He is a criminal. FitterC

12:29am Fri 1 Oct 10

banknote says...

Eggy bread wrote:
Did anybody notice the litter that was left behind? Let's start by doing small things to save the planet. Not driving "protesters" from god knows where causing untold pollution along our roads and then dropping cups and crisps packets. This plant is a bad idea and these type of people just get bad publicity and are actually doing themselves and the rest of us opposed to it a huge disservice.
Well "Eggy bread" as of late Thursday night, the posters and associated rubbish are still all over Portland.

These professional lefties (Rent-a-Mob) are in the "don't do as I do, do as I tell you mode".

Yes you're right they do the people who are genuinely against the plant a huge disservice.
[quote][p][bold]Eggy bread[/bold] wrote: Did anybody notice the litter that was left behind? Let's start by doing small things to save the planet. Not driving "protesters" from god knows where causing untold pollution along our roads and then dropping cups and crisps packets. This plant is a bad idea and these type of people just get bad publicity and are actually doing themselves and the rest of us opposed to it a huge disservice.[/p][/quote]Well "Eggy bread" as of late Thursday night, the posters and associated rubbish are still all over Portland. These professional lefties (Rent-a-Mob) are in the "don't do as I do, do as I tell you mode". Yes you're right they do the people who are genuinely against the plant a huge disservice. banknote

6:37pm Fri 1 Oct 10

bizzylizzy says...

I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first.
I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first. bizzylizzy

7:54pm Fri 1 Oct 10

PoetPeter says...

bizzylizzy wrote:
I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first.
Well be my guest. Do you have anything relevant to say or was it just abuse?
[quote][p][bold]bizzylizzy[/bold] wrote: I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first.[/p][/quote]Well be my guest. Do you have anything relevant to say or was it just abuse? PoetPeter

12:32pm Sun 3 Oct 10

bizzylizzy says...

PoetPeter wrote:
bizzylizzy wrote: I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first.
Well be my guest. Do you have anything relevant to say or was it just abuse?
I thought you were 'educated', Peter. How can two adjectives that I have used to describe you be called 'Abuse' when they are factual? Seeing as you do not even live on Portland, but in the cosy hamlet of Sutton Poyntz, stop deriding the concerns that people who actually live on Portland have. There are ethical, moral and expediency issues involved here and it is obvious that you support the latter. I promise that when a wind turbine is proposed for your village duckpond I will come and support your fight. And stop slagging off FOE - it's an easy thing to do for so called intellectuals but at least they have causes they believe in and are prepared to fight for them.
[quote][p][bold]PoetPeter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bizzylizzy[/bold] wrote: I have read all the comments and have to agree that Fitter C and Mickfromthe rock amongst others are absolutely right. PoetPeter, has anybody ever described you as arrogant and sanctimonious? If not, let me be the first.[/p][/quote]Well be my guest. Do you have anything relevant to say or was it just abuse?[/p][/quote]I thought you were 'educated', Peter. How can two adjectives that I have used to describe you be called 'Abuse' when they are factual? Seeing as you do not even live on Portland, but in the cosy hamlet of Sutton Poyntz, stop deriding the concerns that people who actually live on Portland have. There are ethical, moral and expediency issues involved here and it is obvious that you support the latter. I promise that when a wind turbine is proposed for your village duckpond I will come and support your fight. And stop slagging off FOE - it's an easy thing to do for so called intellectuals but at least they have causes they believe in and are prepared to fight for them. bizzylizzy

3:31pm Sun 3 Oct 10

PoetPeter says...

Ah! So you do have something relevant to say! And it was entertaining too even if completely inaccurate.
If you read through the thread you'll see I've already been attacked for living in Sutton Poyntz (Oh the stigma!) but does that disqualify me from caring about Portland? Surely you wouldn't stoop to such prejudice?
As for FoE, what a bunch of plonkers, nut cases and fanatics. Unlike them, there's one thing I really believe in and am prepared to fight for - the truth. However many snide remarks you make or cheap insults you throw I shall continue to fight for the truth and against the sort of badly informed, hypocritical, rent-a-mob nonsense that was the NOPE demo.
Ah! So you do have something relevant to say! And it was entertaining too even if completely inaccurate. If you read through the thread you'll see I've already been attacked for living in Sutton Poyntz (Oh the stigma!) but does that disqualify me from caring about Portland? Surely you wouldn't stoop to such prejudice? As for FoE, what a bunch of plonkers, nut cases and fanatics. Unlike them, there's one thing I really believe in and am prepared to fight for - the truth. However many snide remarks you make or cheap insults you throw I shall continue to fight for the truth and against the sort of badly informed, hypocritical, rent-a-mob nonsense that was the NOPE demo. PoetPeter

8:25am Mon 4 Oct 10

JANEAUSTEN says...

1. Can anyone guarantee that further deforestation will not occur,
forcing natives and wildlife into even smaller areas and possible extinction, if this plan goes ahead?
The days of the good old British Empire are over- we've robbed enough nations in our history,
we've got absolutely no right to
help this carnage go on on the other side of the world just so
life can be more comfortable for
us. ITS MORALLY WRONG.

Island Jim is right - we should have wind turbines and nuclear power and plenty of them.

If I'd been here this weekend I would have been on the march too, and am proud that some people have a conscience in this selfish capitalist world we have today.



-
1. Can anyone guarantee that further deforestation will not occur, forcing natives and wildlife into even smaller areas and possible extinction, if this plan goes ahead? The days of the good old British Empire are over- we've robbed enough nations in our history, we've got absolutely no right to help this carnage go on on the other side of the world just so life can be more comfortable for us. ITS MORALLY WRONG. Island Jim is right - we should have wind turbines and nuclear power and plenty of them. If I'd been here this weekend I would have been on the march too, and am proud that some people have a conscience in this selfish capitalist world we have today. - JANEAUSTEN

8:55am Mon 4 Oct 10

PoetPeter says...

JANEAUSTEN wrote:
1. Can anyone guarantee that further deforestation will not occur,
forcing natives and wildlife into even smaller areas and possible extinction, if this plan goes ahead?
The days of the good old British Empire are over- we've robbed enough nations in our history,
we've got absolutely no right to
help this carnage go on on the other side of the world just so
life can be more comfortable for
us. ITS MORALLY WRONG.

Island Jim is right - we should have wind turbines and nuclear power and plenty of them.

If I'd been here this weekend I would have been on the march too, and am proud that some people have a conscience in this selfish capitalist world we have today.



-
@JANEAUSTEN
You are usually so much more sensible and balanced.
"Can anyone guarantee..."
Can anyone guarantee that the oil well presently servicing your power needs won't explode causing terrible pollution?
Can anyone guarantee that the coal mine servicing your present power needs won't colllapse burying dozens of miners underground?
Can anyone guarantee that the nuclear power station presently supplying your power won't fracture causing birth defects throughout the local population for generations to come?
Why does the sanctimonious left continue to delude itself that it holds the high moral ground? Since when are work shy dossers entitled to make vile, unsupported accusations against others who actually get off their backsides and do something? Since when does scaremongering propaganda have a place in energy policy?
I'm proud that some people have a conscience even in the face of populist, rabble rousing oppression.
You know much better than just to follow the crowd Jane, blaming everybody and everything. While they rant on in their hypocritical frenzy, they still expect the light switch to work. They'd be the first to start whinging when their playstation doesn't work or Jeremy Kyle'sprogramme goes off air.
[quote][p][bold]JANEAUSTEN[/bold] wrote: 1. Can anyone guarantee that further deforestation will not occur, forcing natives and wildlife into even smaller areas and possible extinction, if this plan goes ahead? The days of the good old British Empire are over- we've robbed enough nations in our history, we've got absolutely no right to help this carnage go on on the other side of the world just so life can be more comfortable for us. ITS MORALLY WRONG. Island Jim is right - we should have wind turbines and nuclear power and plenty of them. If I'd been here this weekend I would have been on the march too, and am proud that some people have a conscience in this selfish capitalist world we have today. -[/p][/quote]@JANEAUSTEN You are usually so much more sensible and balanced. "Can anyone guarantee..." Can anyone guarantee that the oil well presently servicing your power needs won't explode causing terrible pollution? Can anyone guarantee that the coal mine servicing your present power needs won't colllapse burying dozens of miners underground? Can anyone guarantee that the nuclear power station presently supplying your power won't fracture causing birth defects throughout the local population for generations to come? Why does the sanctimonious left continue to delude itself that it holds the high moral ground? Since when are work shy dossers entitled to make vile, unsupported accusations against others who actually get off their backsides and do something? Since when does scaremongering propaganda have a place in energy policy? I'm proud that some people have a conscience even in the face of populist, rabble rousing oppression. You know much better than just to follow the crowd Jane, blaming everybody and everything. While they rant on in their hypocritical frenzy, they still expect the light switch to work. They'd be the first to start whinging when their playstation doesn't work or Jeremy Kyle'sprogramme goes off air. PoetPeter

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