The alternative could be a crumbling Pavilion theatre which could then be demolished saving the taxpayer huge sums of money.

maximus wrote:
The alternative could be a crumbling Pavilion theatre which could then be demolished saving the taxpayer huge sums of money.

What so we have a large empty car park. Just shows how much you want to help the local area.

Great truthful letter for once. Nice one Max Mortimer.

Well said, Max.

The other "everybody loses" endgame is the demolition of the pavilion, which becomes a car park, which is them sold for luxury houses.

In the words of Harry Enfield: "Is that what you want? Cos that's what's gonna happen"

Max, that is not a bad idea a Fun Fair on Our Leisure Pier would be sticking to Local Plan, boost the local economy with attracting families with teenage children and us locals would not have to look at a housing estate on there.

Quote:I would ask them to cast their minds back about 20 to 30 years when walking down St. Thomas Street was like walking through a deprived area with boarded up shops, litter blowing everywhere.
Whereas now? Broken windows, closed shops, gum studded roads, early mornings.... vomit strewn corners and shop entrances smelling of urine. Cheap shops and a rather grotty town.
If these £300+ - appartments are sold, where are these rich people to go? Into the above mentioned streets.
We do need generation but I would suggest the town should be cleaned up first. There should be a meeting at the Pavilion and the residents of Weymouth should give their ideas which should be noted by the people we elect. These executives and councilors should not be on the defensive, as they are now, they should listen for once. I am sure from the various suggestions from the public, something really inspiring would result. Also something which we would gain by and not Howard Holdings.

I have to agree with you Simone, that if Weymouth wants to attract the buyers of these proposed apartments to the town centre then its going to have to offer a far more congenial and cultured urban environment.
As it is and has for a long time been, run down trashy and miserable unsurprisingly the town attracts a likeminded response from the current population this is epitomised by the direct and honest expression which the young are inclined towards, especially when drunk. A case of what you give is what you’ll get it would seem.

blank wrote:
I have to agree with you Simone, that if Weymouth wants to attract the buyers of these proposed apartments to the town centre then its going to have to offer a far more congenial and cultured urban environment. As it is and has for a long time been, run down trashy and miserable unsurprisingly the town attracts a likeminded response from the current population this is epitomised by the direct and honest expression which the young are inclined towards, especially when drunk. A case of what you give is what you’ll get it would seem.

So why is it then when something is proposed to rectify the situation the usual suspects and NIMBY’s try to put a stop to things? You name it - they try to stop it! The Pavilion development, Greenhill, Esplanade, Bincleaves, Osprey Quay, and on and on it goes……

Forgive me if I am wrong but at the moment on the ferry terminal site we have a loss-making crumbling theatre, a barely used ballroom, a derelict ferry terminal, crumbling sea-walls and a car-park, in a prime seafront location. The area is losing money all the time and is being subsidised by the local tax-payer every second of the day. Hardly the best use of the site I would say.

To suggest that the proposed Pavilion/ Ferry Terminal development will not benefit the area is just ludicrous. Who else is going to pump the money into this area? Who are the other developers lining up to take over? This is a plan that will produce a new theatre, a heritage centre, a new ferry terminal, repairing of the sea-walls, a marina, affordable housing, shops, restaurants, bars, amphitheatre, a top-class hotel, a public square and a public walkway. Surely that is better than what is there at present? But this is the bit that some hate – luxury apartments. Most of the opposition to this seems to be driven purely out of envy, jealousy and because his or hers view may be disrupted - so what? Think of the young of the town for once and let the town move forward instead of forever being stuck in the past!

Hold your horses John. I haven't expressed any opposition to the regeneration. I just happen to agree with Simone that the people who we might expect to be able to afford and want to take up residence on the site are unlikely to be interested or attracted to the town centre - who could blame them - although they may well be attracted to the position of the development.
The Pavilion site at the moment is a town centre satellite slightly remote and once regenerated it will probably continue to function in the same way but I can think of no compelling reason to keep ploughing money into the underused, undeveloped site as it is. Once developed it will probably more used as much if not a little more by the town’s population, it wont be used any less. It will however, be used by the people who buy a residence or a berth there.

Can I suggest that the people who really want to have and use a theatre and all the other facilities currently offered by the Pavilion put their money where their mouths are and pay for the renewal by means of public subscription. The remainder of the taxpayers in Weymouth would then be relieved of having to pay out for it. If the Pavilion is or would be a real commercial proposition, I suggest that entrepreneurs would be falling over themselves to get the right to rebuild/refurbish the Pavilion at no cost to us and without the added addition of a rich persons holiday home complex. I have seen no signs that the council has tried this course of action. Money has been poured into the Pavilion for years, the Arts centre went down the drain (I assume due to lack of support) and I don't believe that people come here on holiday in preference to other UK resorts because of our splendid Pavilion and the shows that are staged there. The last time I went to the Pavilion, I was deafened by the volume of the artificially enhanced music, when I spoke to staff, they said that it was mandated by the artistes who seemed to me to equate volume with quality. I don't understand the benefits to Weymouth of having a ferry terminal sited here except for the income from the ferry operator's mooring fee's etc. Perhaps some-one will enlighten me, do people using the ferry stay overnight before and after the ferry trip? It would seem, from the large amount of traffic along the Esplanade after a ferry docks that they do not. If the number of apartments that is suggested are built, will the roads and services be able to cope by funnelling all this increase into this relatively small area. I know this all seems negative to other readers but the whole scheme does not seem to have been thought through, councillors and staff seem to have been dazzled by the 'Pavilion renewal' and can't seem to see that the raison d'etre of any developer is to make profits. I have no quarrel with that.

I don't understand the benefits to Weymouth of having a ferry terminal sited here except for the income from the ferry operator's mooring fee's etc.

From WPBC's summary of the 2006/7 revenue account - harbour expenditure £1,370,000, harbour income £1,653,000. How much of the expenditure is related to Condor I don't know however.

Perhaps some-one will enlighten me, do people using the ferry stay overnight before and after the ferry trip? It would seem, from the large amount of traffic along the Esplanade after a ferry docks that they do not.

Plenty of people stay overnight, normally before catching the ferry in the morning though - don't forget check-in for the morning sailing is anywhere between 0430 - 0630.

blank wrote:
Hold your horses John. I haven't expressed any opposition to the regeneration. I just happen to agree with Simone that the people who we might expect to be able to afford and want to take up residence on the site are unlikely to be interested or attracted to the town centre - who could blame them - although they may well be attracted to the position of the development. The Pavilion site at the moment is a town centre satellite slightly remote and once regenerated it will probably continue to function in the same way but I can think of no compelling reason to keep ploughing money into the underused, undeveloped site as it is. Once developed it will probably more used as much if not a little more by the town’s population, it wont be used any less. It will however, be used by the people who buy a residence or a berth there.

posted by Blank:Quote I just happen to agree with Simone that the people who we might expect to be able to afford and want to take up residence on the site are unlikely to be interested or attracted to the town centre - who could blame them - although they may well be attracted to the position of the development
Just a thought... they can not sit at their windows enjoying the view 24/7.
They also have to join us all in traffic jams into and going out of Weymouth if they wish to enjoy the rest of beautiful Dorset.
With regard to social housing. Very very few of these flats will be used for this purpose.

simone wrote:

blank wrote: Hold your horses John. I haven't expressed any opposition to the regeneration. I just happen to agree with Simone that the people who we might expect to be able to afford and want to take up residence on the site are unlikely to be interested or attracted to the town centre - who could blame them - although they may well be attracted to the position of the development. The Pavilion site at the moment is a town centre satellite slightly remote and once regenerated it will probably continue to function in the same way but I can think of no compelling reason to keep ploughing money into the underused, undeveloped site as it is. Once developed it will probably more used as much if not a little more by the town’s population, it wont be used any less. It will however, be used by the people who buy a residence or a berth there.

posted by Blank:Quote I just happen to agree with Simone that the people who we might expect to be able to afford and want to take up residence on the site are unlikely to be interested or attracted to the town centre - who could blame them - although they may well be attracted to the position of the development Just a thought... they can not sit at their windows enjoying the view 24/7. They also have to join us all in traffic jams into and going out of Weymouth if they wish to enjoy the rest of beautiful Dorset. With regard to social housing. Very very few of these flats will be used for this purpose.

"With regard to social housing. Very very few of these flats will be used for this purpose."

30%, roughly 110 flats. As opposed to nil at the moment!

No, John Holmes, the percentage of social housing on the pier will NOT be 30%. The present proposal is that half of the 30%allocation MIGHT be on the pier, i.e. 15% or 50 "units" - and a unit is not necessarily a big flat. And there's some doubt even about that. But the point is, that the social housing provision would accrue from any development,it is compulsory and not an exclusive feature of the Howard Holdings offer. So stop pretending that Weymouth wouldn't get any social housing if HH pulled out. As you know, the Council has earmarked 27 sites for it around the town, and ANY development of more than 9 "units" anywhere in Weymouth and Portland has to provide some social housing element.

maximus, Weymouth says, ...I don't understand the benefits to Weymouth of having a ferry terminal sited here except for the income from the ferry operator's mooring fee's etc. Perhaps some-one will enlighten me...

The same could be said, in spades, for Dover, Southampton, etc. I guess you never go abroad or buy foreign food or goods. If you did, you would realise we (all) live on an Island. Ports enable ships to carry vehicles and people going to and returning from overseas. If you don’t like shipping then don’t live at a seaside harbour.

Iona, Seaside Not a lot of foreign food or goods comes in through Weymouth port. Lots of people going through the ferry terminal equates to lots of traffic feeding through the centre of town. Fortunately, I don't live at a seaside harbour, I live in the suburbs of a town which has a harbour which used to be commercially thriving but is now only used by the ferry, a mere handful of fishermen who's livelihood is hampered by the red tape imposed by bureaucrats living in another country and a majority of leisure vessels that seem to spend most of the week (or year even) tied up to their moorings. I chose to come to Weymouth many years ago because of a job opportunity. Unfortunately these are now far and few between for the young people today. I can't see that this massive development will, in the long term, provide many well paid jobs or affordable housing for locals. In my opinion the Pavilion will never be commercially viable and I don't see why the majority of taxpayers should be lumbered with this 'white elephant' for the benefit of visitors and the low percentage of local residents who use the facility.

maximus wrote:
Iona, Seaside Not a lot of foreign food or goods comes in through Weymouth port. Lots of people going through the ferry terminal equates to lots of traffic feeding through the centre of town. Fortunately, I don't live at a seaside harbour, I live in the suburbs of a town which has a harbour which used to be commercially thriving but is now only used by the ferry, a mere handful of fishermen who's livelihood is hampered by the red tape imposed by bureaucrats living in another country and a majority of leisure vessels that seem to spend most of the week (or year even) tied up to their moorings. I chose to come to Weymouth many years ago because of a job opportunity. Unfortunately these are now far and few between for the young people today. I can't see that this massive development will, in the long term, provide many well paid jobs or affordable housing for locals. In my opinion the Pavilion will never be commercially viable and I don't see why the majority of taxpayers should be lumbered with this 'white elephant' for the benefit of visitors and the low percentage of local residents who use the facility.

Well the nicest way to put this is your wrong this will benefit Weymouth. You don't even have the right to say what this town wants when you have just moved here.

Tim Weymouth Boy Well if living here for the past 31 years and paying local taxes for all that time, is as you put it 'just moved here', I wonder how long it has to be before I can be counted as a resident. I still don't understand how this massive development will, in the long term , provide many well paid jobs or affordable housing for locals or the Pavilion become commercially viable. Perhaps you can explain exactly how for the benefit of me and others reading this.

I read in the Echo the other day that the big development in Dorchester (Brewery Square) is sensibly being revised DOWNWARDS as the developer there doesn't think he can sell the originally proposed number of flats in the current climate which is forecast to last several years. His revised scheme now has fewer flats! Funny that Weymouth's
Pavilion developer Howard Holdings is perversely proposing an INCREASE in the number of flats on the pier to suit their definition of "viability" i.e. "profitability".

I think Max's premise that people who oppose the Pavilion Redevelopment (in it's present form) are "...trying to stop further progress" is unfounded.
People who I've spoken to about it have no problem with constructive redevelopment and regeneration of a beautiful and integral part of Weymouth town and the harbour. They appreciate that the area needs a facelift and the thought of a new Pavilion Theatre is at the top of everyone's wishlist (except yours).
But there have been anomolies from the start about how Howard Holdings got the contract in the first place; how their initial bid has more than doubled; how they can change the density and height of the apartments, seemingly at will, and how they gained a "partnership" with our Council whose sole objective now seems to be to push this monsterous development through to save face and further costly embarrassment.
Weymouth is a small, seaside town with a reputation for a sandy beach, a busy little harbour and set in a beautiful area of Dorset. It has evolved through the decades I've been here into a much loved and much sought after area to visit and to live.
For my part I want to protect Weymouth's particular atmosphere, its attraction. There are practical difficulties with a conurbation as big as is planned, not least waste disposal and traffic build up but for me, building a housing estate on one of our most valuable possessions and giving away a 200 year lease is nothing short of sacrilege.

Well said Positron, Rodwell I agree that 'constructive redevelopment and regeneration' would be good and 'a housing estate on one of our most valuable possessions' would be bad. I do not understand why our council ever got the idea of building such an excess of accommodation here unless they were perhaps persuaded by that person of exquisite taste who recently admitted to binge eating.

maximus wrote:
Well said Positron, Rodwell I agree that 'constructive redevelopment and regeneration' would be good and 'a housing estate on one of our most valuable possessions' would be bad. I do not understand why our council ever got the idea of building such an excess of accommodation here unless they were perhaps persuaded by that person of exquisite taste who recently admitted to binge eating.

You guys just go round and round in circles. I will briefly explain how it will benefit Weymouth so the slow ones can understand:

1) The building of cafes, restaurants and other facilities in a beautiful area.
2) We will still be able to use a theater as it won’t need demolishing.
3) We will still be able to use the ferry terminal as it won’t need demolishing.
4) A 4star hotel will be built giving a better option for tourists (not the rubbish hotels currently in Weymouth).
5) A new marina offering lots of new jobs plus all the business needed to help run and offer services to the sailors.
6) It won’t be turned into a giant car park.
7) It would shut the “our Weymouth” group up

I think you have just retired in Weymouth maximus and you want it to stay a quiet decaying town. You can say “I am up for the re-development but I don’t want the flats etc etc” you are a fool to even say this.

I have explained just a few small points in how this plan could benefit Weymouth. Now you explain to me your plan or just stop moaning?

Tim Weymouth Boy wrote:

maximus wrote: Well said Positron, Rodwell I agree that 'constructive redevelopment and regeneration' would be good and 'a housing estate on one of our most valuable possessions' would be bad. I do not understand why our council ever got the idea of building such an excess of accommodation here unless they were perhaps persuaded by that person of exquisite taste who recently admitted to binge eating.

You guys just go round and round in circles. I will briefly explain how it will benefit Weymouth so the slow ones can understand: 1) The building of cafes, restaurants and other facilities in a beautiful area. 2) We will still be able to use a theater as it won’t need demolishing. 3) We will still be able to use the ferry terminal as it won’t need demolishing. 4) A 4star hotel will be built giving a better option for tourists (not the rubbish hotels currently in Weymouth). 5) A new marina offering lots of new jobs plus all the business needed to help run and offer services to the sailors. 6) It won’t be turned into a giant car park. 7) It would shut the “our Weymouth” group up I think you have just retired in Weymouth maximus and you want it to stay a quiet decaying town. You can say “I am up for the re-development but I don’t want the flats etc etc” you are a fool to even say this. I have explained just a few small points in how this plan could benefit Weymouth. Now you explain to me your plan or just stop moaning?

Good lad! I'm sick of the moaners in this town - especially those who are not from here and yet seem to know all the answers!