RADICAL action is needed to tackle an escalating housing crisis across Weymouth, experts have said.
A new report commissioned by the National Housing Federation, which represents housing associations, says affordable housing
waiting lists are spiralling out of control.
It calls for immediate action from the Government and support from the public for more building.
Lack of public support for new
housing, with 'Nimbyism' slowing
planning applications.
Federation spokesman Derek Cash said: "Figures show that we have a real crisis on our hands.
"Waiting lists are nearly quadrupling in some areas of Dorset.
"Our report shows the South West is only building 70 per cent of the homes we need every year and only half of social homes required.
"There is now a major backlog of demand from families across the region."
Coun Mike Goodman, Weymouth and Portland Borough Council's housing spokesman, said the council was working hard to allocate land for development and encourage employers to the area.
"It's easy for housing groups to put the blame on everyone else but they are part of the problem. They are sitting on large land banks after we have given planning permission and waiting for prices to go up," he said. "Gordon Brown needs to restore tax relief on pension funds so people don't try and save money by buying extra properties.
"People around Weymouth now are buying four or five properties and are trying to screw the most money they can out of tenants."
He added that, although housing demand is outstripping supply, homelessness levels in the borough are improving.
Graeme Stanley, chief executive of Synergy Housing Group which owns social housing across Weymouth, said small households and delays in government funding for new sites were adding pressure to social housing waiting lists.
The report is called South West Home Truths: The Real Cost of Housing 2007-2012. It says average homes in the region will reach £316,000 by 2012. It says 10,000 affordable homes a year will need to be built across the South West until 2026 to meet targets. A government green paper announced in July proposes £8 billion of investment to meet affordable housing targets, which could result in the building of 70,000 affordable houses a year by 2011.
HOW THE FIGURES ADD UP
Listed by:
Area: Average house price, Average income, Income needed for mortgage, % housing stock 2nd homes
England: £206,594, £19,271, £56,076, 1.08
South West: £210,541, £17,898, £57,147, 2.25
Dorset: £241,419, £17,389, £65,528, 3.37
Bournemouth: £207,547, £17,316, £56,334, 4.15
Poole: £265,922, £17,425, £72,179, 2.61
Christchurch: £252,177, £14,706, £68,448, 3.44
East Dorset: £271,955, £19,937, £73,816, 0.84
North Dorset: £223,177, £17,909, £60,577, 1.79
Purbeck: £252,644, £17,181, £68,575, 6.85
West Dorset: £249,208, £17,779, £67,642, 5.30
Weymouth/Portland: £196,445, £16,110, £53,321, 2.61
Returning student may be priced out
WEYMOUTH'S housing crisis is all too familiar to lifeguard Andrew Sloan.
After completing a university course in leisure and sport management this year the 22-year-old returned to his much-loved home town to find work.
But lack of well-paid jobs or affordable housing has forced Mr Sloan to move back to his mother's house in Radipole.
"I don't want to be living at home all my life but I am struggling to get funds together to buy anywhere," Mr Sloan said.
"I love it back here - I was born in Portland - and have hundreds of friends and family around but it's ridiculously expensive. I have searched all over the place in Preston and Weymouth town centre but my income is just not big enough to pay for anywhere."
The full-time lifeguard, who currently earns less than £20,000, will be searching for new work from next month that will help him get on the property ladder, but he says he is not hopeful of success.
"The Olympics is just going to drive prices up even more. I may end up having to move away if I can't find anywhere," he said.
9:17am Wednesday 22nd August 2007
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CommentPosted by: Jeremy, Weymouth on 9:59am Wed 22 Aug 07
Some big decisions need to be made very quickly in the Weymouth area to help the ambitious and young out - otherwise this area will become just a giant retirement home.
It's time to release land for affordable homes for those who have real links with the area in my opinion. There is land available at Curtis Fields, Lorton Valley, Preston, Littlemoor, Redlands, Broadwey and Upwey. Surely sympathetic developments in these areas could be accommodated? The NIMBY element that would almost certainly oppose such developments must themselves be defeated for the sake of the young and ambitious of this town.
I feel it also time to push the town boundaries out and formally annex Chickerell, thus acquiring and releasing more land for expansion.
Just been to Brighton and they have started constructing four and five storey blocks of starter flats, which admittedly are modest in scale, but at least they are giving someone a chance of a home of their own.
Controversial I know but something has to be done in this area. Has anybody got the balls to do it though?
Some big decisions need to be made very quickly in the Weymouth area to help the ambitious and young out - otherwise this area will become just a giant retirement home.
It's time to release land for affordable homes for those who have real links with the area in my opinion. There is land available at Curtis Fields, Lorton Valley, Preston, Littlemoor, Redlands, Broadwey and Upwey. Surely sympathetic developments in these areas could be accommodated? The NIMBY element that would almost certainly oppose such developments must themselves be defeated for the sake of the young and ambitious of this town.
I feel it also time to push the town boundaries out and formally annex Chickerell, thus acquiring and releasing more land for expansion.
Just been to Brighton and they have started constructing four and five storey blocks of starter flats, which admittedly are modest in scale, but at least they are giving someone a chance of a home of their own.
Controversial I know but something has to be done in this area. Has anybody got the balls to do it though?
Posted by: James Young, Dorchester on 1:57pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Agreed Jeremy. And a non-profit making company to build them, otherwise they'll end up being affordable "shoe boxes". As land comprises about 60% of the price of a house, the council could gift the land to a non-profit builder who could then build a house that would cost less than 50% of a normal size one. They would need to be sold subject to a covenant that prevents the buyer from selling at a price above the % increase in houses in teh area in general. Otherwise they'll only be affordable the first time they are sold.
Agreed Jeremy. And a non-profit making company to build them, otherwise they'll end up being affordable "shoe boxes". As land comprises about 60% of the price of a house, the council could gift the land to a non-profit builder who could then build a house that would cost less than 50% of a normal size one. They would need to be sold subject to a covenant that prevents the buyer from selling at a price above the % increase in houses in teh area in general. Otherwise they'll only be affordable the first time they are sold.
Posted by: Terry, weymuff on 3:02pm Wed 22 Aug 07
There is a nice site (building and car parks)at the north end of the inner harbour that could be made available for housing providing that the current occupants of the site move to an industrial estate (but I fear that they would have to forgo their lunch-time shopping trips. They would get over it, remember when there were plans to put the land registry on the old sidings so that staff could shop?
There is a nice site (building and car parks)at the north end of the inner harbour that could be made available for housing providing that the current occupants of the site move to an industrial estate (but I fear that they would have to forgo their lunch-time shopping trips. They would get over it, remember when there were plans to put the land registry on the old sidings so that staff could shop?
Posted by: Dumbo on 3:20pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Housing crisis is serious,however with upskilling, and the confidence that the new road will give to business and hopefully to attract new business, it would be comforting to think that some good salaries will be in the pipe line before not too long. Good things may come yet!!
Housing crisis is serious,however with upskilling, and the confidence that the new road will give to business and hopefully to attract new business, it would be comforting to think that some good salaries will be in the pipe line before not too long. Good things may come yet!!
Posted by: Sidney Hall, Nearby on 4:16pm Wed 22 Aug 07
All good suggestions - but please, not flats. Actual houses. With gardens.
How would someone qualify to get a cheap, local house?
All good suggestions - but please, not flats. Actual houses. With gardens.
How would someone qualify to get a cheap, local house?
Posted by: Geoff Ellis, weymiff on 4:56pm Wed 22 Aug 07
"How would someone qualify to get a cheap, local house?"
lottery win?
"How would someone qualify to get a cheap, local house?"
lottery win?
Posted by: Secret Squirl on 6:50pm Wed 22 Aug 07
How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.
How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.
Posted by: Dave Smith on 1:13am Thu 23 Aug 07
This stories bull crap, go whore yourself out for money! :O
This stories bull crap, go whore yourself out for money! :O
Posted by: Jac, Weymouth on 8:40am Thu 23 Aug 07
Oh come on!! surely it's more important to house the layabouts and drunks that Dorchester are now sending us???????
get your priorities right!!!
yours sarcastically!
Jac
Oh come on!! surely it's more important to house the layabouts and drunks that Dorchester are now sending us???????
get your priorities right!!!
yours sarcastically!
Jac
Posted by: stephen b., Weymouth on 9:00am Thu 23 Aug 07
Here we go again ... building the bypass will lead to increased salaries! Poppycock! What happened to West Dorset after the Dorchester bypass? That's right - we locals can't afford it any more....any reason for Weymouth to be any different if you can drive from here to the Hammersmith flyover without touching the brakes?
Here we go again ... building the bypass will lead to increased salaries! Poppycock! What happened to West Dorset after the Dorchester bypass? That's right - we locals can't afford it any more....any reason for Weymouth to be any different if you can drive from here to the Hammersmith flyover without touching the brakes?
Posted by: Henstep p, Weymouth Slum on 9:14am Thu 23 Aug 07
[quote][bold]stephen b.[/bold] wrote:
Here we go again ... building the bypass will lead to increased salaries! Poppycock! What happened to West Dorset after the Dorchester bypass? That's right - we locals can't afford it any more....any reason for Weymouth to be any different if you can drive from here to the Hammersmith flyover without touching the brakes?[/quote] Brains of Britain: please check out the average salary of a Weymouth person! Not good is it?
stephen b. wrote:
Here we go again ... building the bypass will lead to increased salaries! Poppycock! What happened to West Dorset after the Dorchester bypass? That's right - we locals can't afford it any more....any reason for Weymouth to be any different if you can drive from here to the Hammersmith flyover without touching the brakes?
Brains of Britain: please check out the average salary of a Weymouth person! Not good is it?
Posted by: stephen b., Weymouth on 10:28am Thu 23 Aug 07
I'll say it again slowly ....Yes, I know what we get paid (or rather don't get paid ), I live here ... but DO NOT BELIEVE the pro-bypassers when they say it will make us all richer. What will happen is that prices of property will go up leading to higher rents for the grotty bedsits which already abound...
I'll say it again slowly ....Yes, I know what we get paid (or rather don't get paid ), I live here ... but DO NOT BELIEVE the pro-bypassers when they say it will make us all richer. What will happen is that prices of property will go up leading to higher rents for the grotty bedsits which already abound...
Posted by: chris edwards, weymouth on 1:55pm Thu 23 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Secret Squirl[/bold] wrote:
How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.[/quote] Try studing for exams living in a 2 up 2 down terraced house with 2 perants and 3 siblings, we dont all have our own bedroom with p c, t v and games consul.
It is well established poor housing = socil problems, better housing and better prospect. We need to stop building flats wich is the only part of the property market that has falling prices. Another way of releasing houses is to get old people who live in 3 bedroom coucilhouses to move to bungelows, give them an insetive and help to move i am sure most would jump at the chance.
Secret Squirl wrote:
How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.
Try studing for exams living in a 2 up 2 down terraced house with 2 perants and 3 siblings, we dont all have our own bedroom with p c, t v and games consul.
It is well established poor housing = socil problems, better housing and better prospect. We need to stop building flats wich is the only part of the property market that has falling prices. Another way of releasing houses is to get old people who live in 3 bedroom coucilhouses to move to bungelows, give them an insetive and help to move i am sure most would jump at the chance.
Posted by: James Young, Dorchester on 2:29pm Thu 23 Aug 07
[quote][bold]chris edwards[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Secret Squirl[/bold] wrote: How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.[/quote] Try studing for exams living in a 2 up 2 down terraced house with 2 perants and 3 siblings, we dont all have our own bedroom with p c, t v and games consul. It is well established poor housing = socil problems, better housing and better prospect. We need to stop building flats wich is the only part of the property market that has falling prices. Another way of releasing houses is to get old people who live in 3 bedroom coucilhouses to move to bungelows, give them an insetive and help to move i am sure most would jump at the chance.[/quote] Chris,
I'm not sure that this is the best route actually, as room for room, bungalows are less efficient, in terms of land use, than houses or apartments.
With regard to flats, i would argue that these are still unaffordable for most.
With regard to council/HA housing, perhaps what is needed is an approach that does not guarantee a house for life, but rather a house that meets needs. So once your kids have left home, it's back to a 1/2 bed place again. These are public assets, after all.
But that doesn't really deal with the issue that everybody should have the right to own a property. A society where such basic attainments are out of reach of the majority clearly cannot be expected to be cohesive. It's not an excuse, but maybe it provides a context for the increasing disaffection of the young.
James.
chris edwards wrote:
Secret Squirl wrote: How does poor housing lead to unemployment and poor school results? This sort of nonsense drives me crackers.
Try studing for exams living in a 2 up 2 down terraced house with 2 perants and 3 siblings, we dont all have our own bedroom with p c, t v and games consul. It is well established poor housing = socil problems, better housing and better prospect. We need to stop building flats wich is the only part of the property market that has falling prices. Another way of releasing houses is to get old people who live in 3 bedroom coucilhouses to move to bungelows, give them an insetive and help to move i am sure most would jump at the chance.
Chris,
I'm not sure that this is the best route actually, as room for room, bungalows are less efficient, in terms of land use, than houses or apartments.
With regard to flats, i would argue that these are still unaffordable for most.
With regard to council/HA housing, perhaps what is needed is an approach that does not guarantee a house for life, but rather a house that meets needs. So once your kids have left home, it's back to a 1/2 bed place again. These are public assets, after all.
But that doesn't really deal with the issue that everybody should have the right to own a property. A society where such basic attainments are out of reach of the majority clearly cannot be expected to be cohesive. It's not an excuse, but maybe it provides a context for the increasing disaffection of the young.
James.
Posted by: david sims on 7:56pm Thu 23 Aug 07
Stop building houses/flats that very few locals can afford!
Stop building houses/flats that very few locals can afford!
Posted by: Terry, weymuff on 9:39pm Thu 23 Aug 07
Is this a sampel of edukation wot [bold]chris edwards, weymouth[/bold] rote, it is a pity that he didn't learn (or was taught) how to spell properly
Is this a sampel of edukation wot
chris edwards, weymouth rote, it is a pity that he didn't learn (or was taught) how to spell properly
Posted by: Tru Belle on 9:48pm Thu 23 Aug 07
Years ago,when there were proper houses with gardens,children used to double up , grandma/pa used to stay,unmarried brother/sister/ cousin /visitor used to have a holiday with you, all a bit cramped ,but that was how it was, no deprivation, we just shared our personal space a little bit less selfishly.
Now adays, singletons, divorced this and that, widows/widowers are all living alone!! Small wonder there is a strain on housing stock. We are now not very good at keeping the extended family between our own walls.
Perhaps a compound, and communal living area for singletons, just like in the old Uni days!! Tax divorce heavily, stop giving houses to very fertile teenage single mothers, and encourage those who are still in housing stock, but the family have flown the nest,to dumb down a grade, like we all do, and release family type homes!Painful , yes, but worthwhile in the long run! Also encourage youngsters to rent together, but to also to invest their spare money in something else, too much anxiety is put on us all about getting onto the housing market, no-one never ever gains , really and truly, in the long term.
Years ago,when there were proper houses with gardens,children used to double up , grandma/pa used to stay,unmarried brother/sister/ cousin /visitor used to have a holiday with you, all a bit cramped ,but that was how it was, no deprivation, we just shared our personal space a little bit less selfishly.
Now adays, singletons, divorced this and that, widows/widowers are all living alone!! Small wonder there is a strain on housing stock. We are now not very good at keeping the extended family between our own walls.
Perhaps a compound, and communal living area for singletons, just like in the old Uni days!! Tax divorce heavily, stop giving houses to very fertile teenage single mothers, and encourage those who are still in housing stock, but the family have flown the nest,to dumb down a grade, like we all do, and release family type homes!Painful , yes, but worthwhile in the long run! Also encourage youngsters to rent together, but to also to invest their spare money in something else, too much anxiety is put on us all about getting onto the housing market, no-one never ever gains , really and truly, in the long term.
Posted by: localbusinessman, Weymouth on 10:16am Fri 24 Aug 07
There used to be something called local authority housing.
I was raised on a large post-war council estate. As well as putting a decent roof over heads, it also encouraged young people to stay in the area.
Of course, it went against all the principles of Thatcherism, which requires as many people as possible to be in debt.
There used to be something called local authority housing.
I was raised on a large post-war council estate. As well as putting a decent roof over heads, it also encouraged young people to stay in the area.
Of course, it went against all the principles of Thatcherism, which requires as many people as possible to be in debt.
Posted by: James Young, Dorchester on 1:36pm Fri 24 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Tru Belle[/bold] wrote:
Years ago,when there were proper houses with gardens,children used to double up , grandma/pa used to stay,unmarried brother/sister/ cousin /visitor used to have a holiday with you, all a bit cramped ,but that was how it was, no deprivation, we just shared our personal space a little bit less selfishly. Now adays, singletons, divorced this and that, widows/widowers are all living alone!! Small wonder there is a strain on housing stock. We are now not very good at keeping the extended family between our own walls. Perhaps a compound, and communal living area for singletons, just like in the old Uni days!! Tax divorce heavily, stop giving houses to very fertile teenage single mothers, and encourage those who are still in housing stock, but the family have flown the nest,to dumb down a grade, like we all do, and release family type homes!Painful , yes, but worthwhile in the long run! Also encourage youngsters to rent together, but to also to invest their spare money in something else, too much anxiety is put on us all about getting onto the housing market, no-one never ever gains , really and truly, in the long term.[/quote] Absolutely, Belle.
In fact, i invite all 28-36 year old single women, who are slim in build and voracious in "appetite", to come and live with me.
They may need to hide away occasionally however; as the wife is a little unreasonable about such things.
Tru Belle wrote:
Years ago,when there were proper houses with gardens,children used to double up , grandma/pa used to stay,unmarried brother/sister/ cousin /visitor used to have a holiday with you, all a bit cramped ,but that was how it was, no deprivation, we just shared our personal space a little bit less selfishly. Now adays, singletons, divorced this and that, widows/widowers are all living alone!! Small wonder there is a strain on housing stock. We are now not very good at keeping the extended family between our own walls. Perhaps a compound, and communal living area for singletons, just like in the old Uni days!! Tax divorce heavily, stop giving houses to very fertile teenage single mothers, and encourage those who are still in housing stock, but the family have flown the nest,to dumb down a grade, like we all do, and release family type homes!Painful , yes, but worthwhile in the long run! Also encourage youngsters to rent together, but to also to invest their spare money in something else, too much anxiety is put on us all about getting onto the housing market, no-one never ever gains , really and truly, in the long term.
Absolutely, Belle.
In fact, i invite all 28-36 year old single women, who are slim in build and voracious in "appetite", to come and live with me.
They may need to hide away occasionally however; as the wife is a little unreasonable about such things.
Posted by: Tru Belle on 2:01pm Fri 24 Aug 07
Well, communes are quite the modern thing,Findhorn being one example of 'in' eco living.
Well according to some tastes anyway.
Of course a certain
wildlife marquis,park owner, embraces such ideas,(you are not him are you?)
But yes, in tribal villages of old , not far from all of us , all of these modern concepts were tried and tested, and clearly successful. Truthfully speaking , men can just dream on,we, of the superior sex, are probably less biddable!!
Well, communes are quite the modern thing,Findhorn being one example of 'in' eco living.
Well according to some tastes anyway.
Of course a certain
wildlife marquis,park owner, embraces such ideas,(you are not him are you?)
But yes, in tribal villages of old , not far from all of us , all of these modern concepts were tried and tested, and clearly successful. Truthfully speaking , men can just dream on,we, of the superior sex, are probably less biddable!!
Posted by: James Young, Dorchester on 7:26pm Fri 24 Aug 07
Nope, any chances i ever had of buying a wildlife park went out the window when Labour were voted in. Now i am a criminal - or the next best thing, i higher rate tax payer.
I quite fancy the idea of packing it all in and living in a commune. I'd thought about a narrowboat. Anyone care to join me ?
Nope, any chances i ever had of buying a wildlife park went out the window when Labour were voted in. Now i am a criminal - or the next best thing, i higher rate tax payer.
I quite fancy the idea of packing it all in and living in a commune. I'd thought about a narrowboat. Anyone care to join me ?
Posted by: mid atlantic trough on 8:40pm Fri 24 Aug 07
[quote][bold]James Young[/bold] wrote:
Nope, any chances i ever had of buying a wildlife park went out the window when Labour were voted in. Now i am a criminal - or the next best thing, i higher rate tax payer. I quite fancy the idea of packing it all in and living in a commune. I\'d thought about a narrowboat. Anyone care to join me ?[/quote] So,fine letter writer!
There is something you didn't mention in the paper? A barge?
Do we all need one?
Or are you thinking about an ARK.
Also what do you know about sea swells?, as in some of the big wave swells they have had off the coast of Cape Town and Durban recently?
James Young wrote:
Nope, any chances i ever had of buying a wildlife park went out the window when Labour were voted in. Now i am a criminal - or the next best thing, i higher rate tax payer. I quite fancy the idea of packing it all in and living in a commune. I\'d thought about a narrowboat. Anyone care to join me ?
So,fine letter writer!
There is something you didn't mention in the paper? A barge?
Do we all need one?
Or are you thinking about an ARK.
Also what do you know about sea swells?, as in some of the big wave swells they have had off the coast of Cape Town and Durban recently?
Posted by: Gary Lord, Up north on 1:14pm Wed 29 Aug 07
I feel sorry for these young southerners. I wonder however what the attitude of their parents is to atronomically high house prices? They have benefited while their offspring have not.Maybe there is a generational gap here in attitudes?
Living in the north and never voting tory in my life i always opposed the money-grabbing, dog-eat-dog,lift the draw-bridge type of society that young people in the SW seem to be victims of now. Again, i doubt the good citizens of your area stood up and opposed Thatcherism. In fact they would have actively encouraged house price rises, council house sell-offs, tax cuts and the whole package of measures which have led inexorably to the problems some people are facing now.
I feel sorry for these young southerners. I wonder however what the attitude of their parents is to atronomically high house prices? They have benefited while their offspring have not.Maybe there is a generational gap here in attitudes?
Living in the north and never voting tory in my life i always opposed the money-grabbing, dog-eat-dog,lift the draw-bridge type of society that young people in the SW seem to be victims of now. Again, i doubt the good citizens of your area stood up and opposed Thatcherism. In fact they would have actively encouraged house price rises, council house sell-offs, tax cuts and the whole package of measures which have led inexorably to the problems some people are facing now.
Posted by: Gordons Browns replacement on 6:16pm Wed 29 Aug 07
Piffle, we have had a government in power for ten years, and this part of Dorset is under the reign of the Red Knight.
Stop and engage brain---10 years, got it???
Piffle, we have had a government in power for ten years, and this part of Dorset is under the reign of the Red Knight.
Stop and engage brain---10 years, got it???
Posted by: Gary Lord, Up North on 2:20pm Thu 30 Aug 07
Labour in name alone, comrade. When all the rich city types come knocking with their bonus' buying all the remaining housing stock in your area, closely followed by the rentier middle classes,with barely a whisper of protest from the majority of Labour MP's, try telling us then that the tory, neoliberal status quo has not been continued. We didn't call him Tory Blair for nothing. If rich people chose to buy basic amenities to earn rentier income who are we to object? And why should middle class man subsidise a state house building programme? It's not in their interests, Jack. Raise income tax for a fairer, more just society? Are you calling us socialists?
Fair point about your Labour MP. Didn't think - I've never met a southerner who wasn't a tory before!
Labour in name alone, comrade. When all the rich city types come knocking with their bonus' buying all the remaining housing stock in your area, closely followed by the rentier middle classes,with barely a whisper of protest from the majority of Labour MP's, try telling us then that the tory, neoliberal status quo has not been continued. We didn't call him Tory Blair for nothing. If rich people chose to buy basic amenities to earn rentier income who are we to object? And why should middle class man subsidise a state house building programme? It's not in their interests, Jack. Raise income tax for a fairer, more just society? Are you calling us socialists?
Fair point about your Labour MP. Didn't think - I've never met a southerner who wasn't a tory before!
Posted by: Gordons Browns replacement on 10:36am Fri 31 Aug 07
Gary Lord
It is people like you who have created this north south divide, by having such a huge chip on your shoulder.
There are probably more productive intelligent folk from up there , working and doing very well,
then you can imagine. Some of the great thinkers and doers put philanthropic words into actions.
So tell me, Gary, what happened to you then? You are not representative of the many original thinkers , are you???
Gary Lord
It is people like you who have created this north south divide, by having such a huge chip on your shoulder.
There are probably more productive intelligent folk from up there , working and doing very well,
then you can imagine. Some of the great thinkers and doers put philanthropic words into actions.
So tell me, Gary, what happened to you then? You are not representative of the many original thinkers , are you???
Posted by: Jew, Nowhere near you on 11:50am Sat 6 Oct 07
[italic][bold]Andrew Sloan is my boyfriend and he is great! He has a big penis too!
Andrew Sloan is my boyfriend and he is great! He has a big penis too!
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