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Land Registry workers shocked by secret filming


WEYMOUTH Land Registry has been secretly filming staff at home, in shops and at the gym after they made compensation claims for personal injury at work.

A total of six employees were put under surveillance after making claims they suffered from repetitive strain injury.

One Weymouth woman, Jane Brooke, was fired after being filmed alongside members of the public at the fitness centre at Weymouth Swimming Pool.

The Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) held a rally outside the Land Registry in Cumberland Drive yesterday in support of Mrs Brooke and vowed to fight her sacking as unfair dismissal.

Mrs Brooke said she was told to go to the gym by her doctor after she began suffering from pains in her wrist and her neck seized up.

While at the gym she was filmed by private investigators employed by the Land Registry.

She was filmed over several months but only found out when the PCS, of which she was branch secretary, told her.

Mrs Brooke said that she felt sick when she was given the DVDs showing her being followed around Weymouth.

She said after 30 years’ work she was called into a room and told she had five minutes to leave the Land Registry before being escorted out of the building. She was told she was fired for gross misconduct, with the Land Registry saying that she made a fraudulent claim for her RSI.

She said: “When I put the DVD on I couldn’t watch it. I felt sick. Now I remember looking out of my blinds and thinking ‘oh that car’s still there.’ “They took photographs of my son and my friend. I live on my own, but who are these people and have they been CRB checked? That guy came into the gym and filmed without permission.

“There were about eight other people there and they were mostly women.”

Penny Waller, who still works at the Land Registry, was also filmed and was horrified to see footage of her house while her daughter was at home alone.

“They filmed me with my daughters and they filmed my 17-year-old daughter driving alone and me taking my mother home. They filmed into our front door.

“I think they were trying to say I did not have an injury but I’ve had an operation on my arm.”

PSC assistant general secretary Chris Baugh said Mrs Brooke had been singled out to discourage others from claiming.

He called the episode ‘a public disgrace’ at a meeting at the Alex Inn after the rally outside Land Registry headquarters.

Mr Baugh said the six claims for personal injury were stopped due to costs and concerns about proving that the injuries were caused by work.

A spokesman for the fitness centre confirmed they had been told of filming without their knowledge and no longer allow visitors to take bags in for fear that cameras could be concealed inside.

Of the six employees put under surveillance, three have not yet been informed they were filmed during an investigation believed to have cost £40,000 and containing more than 60 hours’ footage.

Private investigation firm Quantum Enquiries and Surveillance from Cheshire declined to comment.

This comes after news that 62 workers at the Land Registry face losing their jobs as part of cost-cutting measures.

Marion Shelley, spokesman for the Land Registry, said that Mrs Brooke was sacked for gross misconduct.

She said: “Fraud is a criminal offence and any compensation in respect of personal injury claims is paid from fee income received from Land Registry’s customers.

“Land Registry has a duty to ensure that compensation is always properly and justifiably paid.”

When asked to explain the use of surveillance at the gym she said: “The decision to commission limited surveillance was taken following legal advice and after giving due consideration to the impact on the privacy of the employees and those around them.

“Given the potential cost and impact of these and future claims if they were to succeed, Land Registry believes this was a reasonable and proportionate action. It is not a decision that was taken lightly, but Land Registry acted appropriately and in accordance with the law.”

She added: “This action was taken because it was not clear that these were legitimate claims.

“It was not connected to any trade union role held by Mrs Brooke.”

Comments(45)

popup says...
8:04am Sat 12 Dec 09

While I do think this is out of order I do think that this is the sort of thing that we have forced on ourselves by the current trend for compensation, the compensation culture is another import from the U.S where they claim for everything they can, but it is a very dodgy road to go down and this is just one example of the sort of thing that is/has been used to counter these claims. You only have to look at the papers almost daily they are catching benefit fraudsters by exactly the same process and to be fair to the Land Registry they also have a duty to protect themselves from false and dubious claims. As an employer how do you know if any given complaint is down to something? That you have asked that employee to do, how do you know that they wouldn’t have had it anyway, for years people have suffered health issues as a result of the job they do and that has been excepted as part of the job and not a way to make a quick few Quid. I am fully in favour of compensation for injury at work but R.S.I I am very doubtful about and if it is genuine should it not be excepted as part of the job.

Hassled says...
9:20am Sat 12 Dec 09

Popup you misspelt accepted
re your comments if LR is so sure they had no claims for RSI why have they sent the Health & Safety Executive top bods to Weymouth and why did they commission an independent study from a consultant firm which found significant problems. We are no longer in the 19th and 20th Century but the 21st wake up, this is the new ailment which could affect millions in the future think how long many people now spend using computers but you can't see the problems cause using the naked eye. It takes experts to diagnose the condition but if you are referred at work they send you to see a local GP of their choosing, one who may have very limited knowledge of this condition through no fault of their own. The claims being made were very small but this was an unprecedented and gross misuse of public money to prevent 6 people from claiming a small amount to compensate for the long term suffering they have endured and are continuing to endure in their daily life as well as at work due to the failure to properly ensure their health and safety at work! Its funny they only took disciplinary action against two union committe members don't you think!

Phaedrus says...
9:54am Sat 12 Dec 09

Regardless of the validity of a claim, filming on private property without permission is wrong. Where would this end? If someone has been advised by a doctor to go to the gym, gym use in itself cannot be grounds for dismissal. Having said that, fraudulent claims are a burden on us all and all employers have a duty to check validity of claims by any legal means.

cairnsc says...
10:01am Sat 12 Dec 09

This was not a fraudulent claim. Lawyers looked at the video evidence and they had no proof. This person is an honest person and wouldn't know how to act dishonestly. Makes me sick that people write comments on things they do not know. Jane has worked at the registry for 31 years and has an unblemished career, why would she jeopodise her job for a small injury claim. I say good luck with the campaign and let justice be done, and get the people from Weymouth to get behind her and lets see Justine for Jane

Mabu says...
10:10am Sat 12 Dec 09

My upper body has been riddled with RSI from 18 years old. Some people are very susceptible to it. Others are almost immune. That is why people are sceptical. I have never claimed, but I can assure you it exists, it is a very complex condition, it prevents you doing certain things but not others. It can be totally crippling. For example I could never work at a check-out or data input, I can not hold a telephone to my ear for that long, but I could stack boxes all day long. If it flares up I cannot even do a lot of washing up, but I can do any task for just a few minutes. You an feel it 24 hours a day. It can wake you at night. Treatment of RSI is limited party because Dr's are reluctant to get involved. I have never been given advice by a Dr. It is very sad. For anybody reading this with mouse-induced RSI the ONLY thing that saved my career was a mouse called "Evoluent II vertical mouse". I cannot recommend this highly enough.

popup says...
10:22am Sat 12 Dec 09

I don’t think you will find many occupations that don’t have a detrimental effect on our health in one way or another, that is a fact of life and is something that has been accepted for many years i.e. according to the H.S.E the correct way to lift is with a straight back this protects the back but does your knee’s in, the only comfort is that knee’s are replaceable your back is not. The fact is that the human body is a mechanical thing albeit a very complex one and like all things mechanical in time it will show signs of wear and if we are going to start claiming compensation for wear and tear where will it end.

P.S Thank you Hassled and sorry.

caz maz says...
10:35am Sat 12 Dec 09

Lets see wht the courts say, I take it that one of them will take the other to court.
Will it be "unfair dissmisal" or "Fraud"
which one will have the balls to prove there claim in court?

Tru belle says...
10:41am Sat 12 Dec 09

Jeepers creepers, what a load of wimps in Weymouth and freeloaders!

Please think about our troops who are returned badly maimed on a daily basis from Afghanistan, consider what they Do Not recieve in compensation for damaged limbs and eyesight etc.

Benefit fraud is appalling, but sadly so common. There are flaws in the system which need sorting out.

Benefits were a temporary hammock to sustain a period of illness, it is now seen as a free and easy income!

A.H.W.S says...
11:33am Sat 12 Dec 09

Tru belle wrote:
Jeepers creepers, what a load of wimps in Weymouth and freeloaders! Please think about our troops who are returned badly maimed on a daily basis from Afghanistan, consider what they Do Not recieve in compensation for damaged limbs and eyesight etc. Benefit fraud is appalling, but sadly so common. There are flaws in the system which need sorting out. Benefits were a temporary hammock to sustain a period of illness, it is now seen as a free and easy income!
With the greatest of respect Tru Belle, I think you have missed the point. This is not about benefit fraud. Also, I think injured service men do receive compensation. (No way near enough, in my opinion but that is a completely different story). There will always be someone somewhere whose job is more dangerous and therefore any injury sustained is naturally going to be far worse, but everything is relative. The Land Registry has a duty of care towards their staff. The HSE deemed the LR equipment unfit for purpose. I think I am right in saying that the HSE would have dealt with the LR much more seriously if they were not a Government department. Apparently they are not allowed to close down any Government departments.
Jane and others suffer with RSI becuase the LR neglected their H&S responsibilities in my opinion.
Jane was also dismissed, after an internal diciplinary procedure where the Land Registry decided, on the balance of probability that she had exeggerated her injury, they have not doubted that she has RSI, even after putting her under surveillance. Apparently the LR cannot distinguish the difference between doing over 1000 clicks an hour on a mouse and stroking a dog. They believe if she can do the later then she must be able work for 8 hours a day on a PC doing intensive mouse and keyboard work.
The LR operates as a trading fund and therefore does not take its money direct form the public purse. Any money it spends does impede on the tax payer though as they therefore give less money to the Goverment. Maybe the LR should have spent a little money providing the right equipment and keyboard/mouse rest breaks. It would have been far cheaper in the long run as it could have prevented many (paid) days off sick for staff suffering with RSI.

popup says...
12:04pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Apparently the LR cannot distinguish the difference between doing over 1000 clicks an hour on a mouse and stroking a dog. Both of which you do by choice as with any job nobody forced her to do it she done it out of choice as we all do in order to earn a living, the fact that the H.S.E found equipment not fit for purpose does not surprise me as they could go into most premises and find equipment not fit for purpose because what is fit today is not fit tomorrow, and neither the L/R or any company for that matter can afford to keep up with technology as it changes so quickly. Most people suffer as a result of their job, and accept that it goes with the job a shelf stacker might suffer from back pain/a driver from back pain piles or bad knee’s/a mechanic from back pain I could go on for hours listing the different complaints associated with different occupations. So at the end of the day either do the job or quit don’t expect any company to keep paying sick pay and compensation because YOUR body is failing or objecting to what you are doing with it.

staffs says...
12:08pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Every member of the surveilance team should be arrested immediately, along with any managers or officials who authorised this spying.

This is gross misuse of power from the land registry, and a complete violation of several civil rights.

I would advise the 6 filmed workers to go directly to court with this.

Mabu says...
1:12pm Sat 12 Dec 09

popup wrote:
Apparently the LR cannot distinguish the difference between doing over 1000 clicks an hour on a mouse and stroking a dog. Both of which you do by choice as with any job nobody forced her to do it she done it out of choice as we all do in order to earn a living, the fact that the H.S.E found equipment not fit for purpose does not surprise me as they could go into most premises and find equipment not fit for purpose because what is fit today is not fit tomorrow, and neither the L/R or any company for that matter can afford to keep up with technology as it changes so quickly. Most people suffer as a result of their job, and accept that it goes with the job a shelf stacker might suffer from back pain/a driver from back pain piles or bad knee’s/a mechanic from back pain I could go on for hours listing the different complaints associated with different occupations. So at the end of the day either do the job or quit don’t expect any company to keep paying sick pay and compensation because YOUR body is failing or objecting to what you are doing with it.
I agree with the majority of this, but the difference with computer related RSI compared to physical labour wear and tear is that RSI is less expected. We expect physical labour to damage us. But what healthy person could honestly say that when they start a job using IT, they would think 'I have to use a mouse, I might get severe injuries, this is too dangerous I wont do it'. Very few. And if they are not warned, they will ignore the aches and pains at first, until irreversible damage is done. This is why companies using IT have even more of a responsibility to warn about and prevent RSI. It really is a nasty thing and irreversible.

MikeatUpwey says...
1:32pm Sat 12 Dec 09

I have known Jane for many years as a colleague at the Weymouth Land Registry. She is honest to a fault. There are at least two comments above which are totally misinformed. This has nothing to do with compensation culture or hoax RSI claims. The Land Registry at Weymouth were found to be non compliant by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) some years ago. The claims made by the individuals concerned were in all probility linked to injuries sustained before the Land Registry were compelled to take measures to ensure compliance with HSE requirements by improving working practices and equipment.

Of course the Land Registry are trying to mitigate the consequences of their shortfalls in protecting the health of their workforce, but this is not the way to do it!!

This is about an individual who has done nothing wrong and now lost her job after 31 years of unblemished service. She is now fighting for justice against the full might and clearly unlimited resources of a Government Agency.

DrSpock says...
2:28pm Sat 12 Dec 09

For all you doubting Thomas’s RSI can be a very painful, debilitating and permanent injury.
It is caused by excessive repetitive action. Land Registry was not compliant with Health and Safety Regulations, with equipment and work processes deemed to be below minimum legal requirements. I know of a number of staff at Weymouth Land Registry who have endured painful operations and treatment. A number have also sustained permanent disabilities due to their injuries. Employers have and duty of care to their staff and the only way to make employers address their failings is to take action.

gerbil112 says...
4:15pm Sat 12 Dec 09

If there are such a high number of sufferers at the Land Registry, how does this relate to other IT related jobs? Are there an equal percentage of workers in, say, call centres or within the Local Council?

It is correctly stated above that RSI is very difficult for a Doctor to diagnose, primarily due to a lack of obvious physical signs. Any company (LR included) that has suspicions about an employees claim, would and should use a specialist Occupational Health Medical Service to examine the employee. Not just any old "local GP" as someone suggested above.


There are procedures to follow when sickness occurs in Local Government, including several sickness reviews before employment is terminated on health grounds. It would appear that this persons claims were withdrawn and that, together with medical evidence (and sadly, the video reports), would have lead to the dismissal on Fraud grounds.


Believe me, no company, Government or otherwise, would instantly dismiss someone without careful thought and consideration. The compensation for unfair dismissal, if proven against the company, could prove ratherexpensive.

Mabu says...
4:25pm Sat 12 Dec 09

I want to reiterate for the sake of RSI sufferers; after spending hundreds on trackerballs, tablets, joysticks etc it was the 'Evoluent II vertical mouse' that saved my career. I highly recommend it.

gerbil112 says...
4:30pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Mabu wrote:
I want to reiterate for the sake of RSI sufferers; after spending hundreds on trackerballs, tablets, joysticks etc it was the 'Evoluent II vertical mouse' that saved my career. I highly recommend it.
http://www.wellworki
ng.co.uk/catalog/evo
luent_vertical_mouse
_3.cfm?_kk=ea4d1c64-
abc7-4e4f-94e6-fed2c
70dd827&_kt=43895580
39&gclid=CKajktqo0Z4
CFYIA4wodfURKpw

mat2476 says...
4:55pm Sat 12 Dec 09

These false claims cost business millions each year and so should be investigted by whatever means.

starlightaden says...
5:00pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Quite simple. RSI is RSI as described above. If the claim was not fraudulent or fraudulently exaggerated why was it withdrawn?

thesquid says...
5:30pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Ok I am confused - so the land registry didn't have to pay any money out in compensation as none of the 6 went to court. But yet they then went and spent £40,000 on surveillance, is that each or the total amount? So why would a government department who are making a loss need to spend money on a defense they wouldn't have to use????
Are you legally obliged to inform people that they have been under surveillance???? So they haven't been told, and there is fottage of them on dvds, even of their families and members of the public stored on discs somewhere. That is creepy!!!!
What is even more creepy is that some perv with a camera thought it necessary to film a 17 year old girl on her own and people in a gym............that is just sick. He or she really should be arrested and charged.......... filming a 17 year old girl because her mother made a claim for an injury at work......how is that relevant???
I see that the land registry is a goverment department, I would like the minister in charge to explain why our tax payers money was wasted film people who were never going to sue for a claim, surely the statement Ms Shelley used is that that customers money is used to pay for claims - yet you didn't pay any compensation claims - you used customers money to waste on surveillance!!!!
I wonder how many times Ms Shelley has made a false claim on her expenses, nicked a pen from work, had a longer lunch then she claimed. Maybe the whole management should openly declare their expense claims, well we sacking for fraud, best be whiter than white!!!

DizzyDon says...
5:37pm Sat 12 Dec 09

These claims are usually investigated after the relevant authorities have been given information from a source close to the claimant; friend or work colleague. The investigators then work hard to collect evidence whilst adhering strictly to control measures on how/where/what. No-one is at risk of any form of abuse (personal/informatio
n/data/etc) from the collection of this evidence (so Mrs Brookes' question of CRB checking is purely sour grapes). Mrs Brookes has been found guilty of making a fraudulent claim after months of hard work on the investigators part during which time if she was being honest then this also would have been proven. I can't understand why her colleagues allow themselves to be seen to publicly support such dishonesty while at the same time criticising people who fraudulently claim benefit while working.

thesquid says...
6:08pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Think you have missed the point of the article dizzydon - they haven't been "dobbed in " by a colleague or friend. I think you are thinking of benefit fraud.

The employer has instigated the act based on a claim for compensation. A claim which sounds like has been backed by medical fact.
The uproar as I see it is that (a) this lady and 5 of her colleagues have been through various medical referrals and assessments, the employer is also obliged to insist on medical examinations. And yet they still diregarded these and used other methods. And (b) most importantly that her friend and son where filmed and another ladies daughters wher filmed on their own and would have no baring on any claim. The law clearly states that surviellence can be carried out on those who commit or are judged to have committed crimes, but as the children and the friend have not committed or are suspected of such a crime, the law as below applies * Everyone has the right to respect for his(/her) private and family life, his(/her) home and his(/her) correspondence.
* There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

The children and friend of the claimants can not be filmed because they have not made any claims. As i see it these are the points we should all fear, an employer that instigates these measures merely for petty revenge.

macsimus says...
10:32pm Sat 12 Dec 09

mat2476 wrote:
These false claims cost business millions each year and so should be investigted by whatever means.
"whatever means", be careful with what you wish for.

WHYTHEFACE? says...
11:29pm Sat 12 Dec 09

Employers Liability claims are by their nature very expensive. The injuries may not be major but the claim for lost earnings and pension rights often dwarf the amount for the injury.

Of course it is correct to check up on the claimants to make sure that the injuries are really as bad as claimed. Well done the LR for having the courage to do so. It is interesting that the claims have now been dropped.

The investigators work to a strict code of practice and usually work on the instructions of solicitors or insurers, as a Union official Mrs Brooke would have been well aware that surveillance is commonly used.

When you make a claim you open yourself to scrutiny, if you have reasonable grounds of success any solicitor will take your claim on board.

Well done LR lets hope a few more publicly funded bodies take your lead and save my hard earned cash.

giveusthefacts says...
1:08am Sun 13 Dec 09

As an ex Civilservant with 20 yrs service.I can tell you that there are a lot of false sick claims from staff because they know how difficult it is to be sacked. What other employer will give you 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay when sick? The biggest culprits for sickness are PCS reps claiming stress.They are the first to complain about public sector pay, but are happy to take the extra benefits of leave for Maundy Thursday/ Queens Birthday and the extended Christmas break Well if you don't like it, get a job in the private sector and stop moaning.

Hassled says...
9:55am Sun 13 Dec 09

To gerbil112
Re your comment about Doctors they use, I know one of the people involved and I can assure you they routinely refer them to one of the Doctors on their lists but they are not necessarily specialists of any sort. To all the other doubters this will come to court (in the form of an Employment Tribunal) eventually and then the truth will out! The only reason the PCS lawyers did not continue is because the costs were becoming prohibitive, as the LR will do everything to delay any action because they know it then increases the claimants costs and they are less likely to continue, unfortunately the PCS only has a limited amount of money from peoples contributions and there are so many other issues out there such as privatisation. LR board is gearing up to sell off most of LR to Cameron's tory buddies. The majority of LR staff want to keep the LR as a government agency, do you want information regarding your mortgage and how much you paid for your house to be in the ownership of a private firm? So yes the union does have other issues to deal with but thankfully Jane is being fully supported at this most difficult time, even a non-union member was in tears when they heard what happened, as one person commented "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy"!

Genghis says...
9:58am Sun 13 Dec 09

giveusthefacts wrote:
As an ex Civilservant with 20 yrs service.I can tell you that there are a lot of false sick claims from staff because they know how difficult it is to be sacked. What other employer will give you 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay when sick? The biggest culprits for sickness are PCS reps claiming stress.They are the first to complain about public sector pay, but are happy to take the extra benefits of leave for Maundy Thursday/ Queens Birthday and the extended Christmas break Well if you don't like it, get a job in the private sector and stop moaning.
Maundy Thursday and Queen's Birthday are no more. Extended Christmas break? Not while I've been at the Land Registry and I've been there 25 years. Of course you can use your annual leave over the Christmas period but the office is open throughout apart from the Bank Holidays.

scorpio69 says...
1:10pm Sun 13 Dec 09

It's a shame that a lot of people are missing the point here. Firstly, it didn't get to Court. Secondly, despite having medical and other supporting evidence the Land Registry says "action was taking because it was not clear that these were legitimate claims". Correct me if I'm wrong but does medical reports, specialist reports etc count for nothing? Also, having been a "victim" of Land Registry's tactics myself in the past I know exactly how manipulative, cunning and downright difficult they can make your life. They'll send you all over the country to have a medical - the further, the better and you have to pay to get there, they don't believe in RSI because until they've been successfully sued for it - guess what, it doesn't exist! They'll consistly criticise you for being off despite being medically unfit and if you do come in medically unfit you'll then be blamed for coming in. You CAN'T win. They also have a plentiful pot of money to dip into so you get priced out whilst they hire the best of the best. At the end of the day, these staff are ordinary people like you and I. Despite what you may think they do not get paid big bonuses - infact, they don't get a bonus at all. The Land Registry Board do however. Merry Christmas LR Board - how's the 13% pay award easing your Christmas strife? Oh, I read up on Quantum Enquiries and Surveillance, the surveillance firm involved. Curious - did they inform the Police that they were carrying out surveillance. Aparently, they are suppose to according to their own Conduct Policy. No mention of whether their staff are CRB checked etc. Human Rights? Not for LR staff! I support all the workers involved - the whole thing is outrageous. More follow up and investigation please!

Dorset-born says...
2:05pm Sun 13 Dec 09

Well said scorpio69. I work for a large company who also use underhand tactics to discriminate and cull the workforce. Instead of requesting the medical facts they take it upon themselves to put fear into employees and if sick days are taken then low and behold you face the consequences. I have never put in for a compensation claim and have rarely had a day off sick in years however there is a process in place for all employees to follow for compensation but unfortunately more and more companies are disregarding one's health. Obviously Mrs Brooke would not be able to challenge a Government Agency's financial powers and maybe therefore withdrew her claim because of that? Whatever the reason, how can an employer disregard medical facts based on their own conclusions. Surely any evidence gathered should be presented to the law courts. Chin up Mrs Brooke, I feel you have been served an injustice ...one day the LR may get their comeuppance and be taken to the cleaners...then heads will roll. What goes round, comes round!

scorpio69 says...
2:14pm Sun 13 Dec 09

One more thing, if it wasn't proven/disproven through the Court, why did Land Registry see fit to discipline Mrs Brooke for "gross misconduct" based on their belief that she made a false claim? Who made them judge and jury?

veeebs says...
4:56pm Sun 13 Dec 09

This whole episode makes me angry! For one, I can't see how a desk job can give you a personal injury and two what a load of money wasted by the Land Registry. Its organisations like this that cost the tax payer millions. I say bring in the Conservatives and sort out this rubbish that comes with a Labour Government and they can go and find real jobs!

Get a grip says...
5:59pm Sun 13 Dec 09

Look two sides to ever story and we do not have all the facts here.

Phaedrus says...
6:06pm Sun 13 Dec 09

I do not know if the claim or claims were valid, no-one can unless they have ALL the facts. What is important is that videoing on private property without permission is unacceptable, likewise videoing of individuals not involved, especially vulnerable or young people.
RSI has been a recognised condition for years, it is real and can be disabling. Employers have a legal duty to carry out risk assessments and make the workplace as safe as possible. They also need to investigate any claims which are made. It should go without saying that any investigation must be carried out in an ethical fashion.
Like many others, I doubt if a small private company could get away with the tactics of the LR, or receive just a slap on the wrist if it failed to make a reasonable risk assessment.

gerbil112 says...
6:45pm Sun 13 Dec 09

I understand (from an insider at LR), that as an employer, they have bent over backwards to accommodate workers needs. Anti-glare screens, ergonomic work stations and chairs, etc. Also, as the Union decided not to proceed with this matter, they obviously thought that there was no chance of winning. If there was a chance, there are plenty of "No win, No fee" Lawyers that would have taken it on. Government employers have been seen by many, for years, as a meal-ticket when it comes to "injuries". As the department is laying off staff, I wonder if Mrs Brooke was one of those?

popup says...
6:48pm Sun 13 Dec 09

Phaedrus wrote:
I do not know if the claim or claims were valid, no-one can unless they have ALL the facts. What is important is that videoing on private property without permission is unacceptable, likewise videoing of individuals not involved, especially vulnerable or young people. RSI has been a recognised condition for years, it is real and can be disabling. Employers have a legal duty to carry out risk assessments and make the workplace as safe as possible. They also need to investigate any claims which are made. It should go without saying that any investigation must be carried out in an ethical fashion. Like many others, I doubt if a small private company could get away with the tactics of the LR, or receive just a slap on the wrist if it failed to make a reasonable risk assessment.
Phaedrus you just said it all in one sentence (RSI has been a recognised condition for years) I know of one person who had an operation for R.S.I over 20 years ago, so there is no reason for anybody not to know about it, the lady was a typist but also spent most of her free time knitting so what percentage of her condition was down to typing and what percentage was down to knitting?? There is such a thing as duty of care and that covers everybody including yourself so if you think you are at risk and it bothers you then you should get another job. As I have stated on previous posts all jobs have their own health risks attached so it is up to the individual to decide whether to take that risk or not. I might be wrong but as i understand it the L.R used to be civil servants and used to all the perks etc that comes with being a civil servant, they are no longer civil servants and maybe finding it hard to adjust to the real world.

Genghis says...
8:06pm Sun 13 Dec 09

popup wrote:
Phaedrus wrote: I do not know if the claim or claims were valid, no-one can unless they have ALL the facts. What is important is that videoing on private property without permission is unacceptable, likewise videoing of individuals not involved, especially vulnerable or young people. RSI has been a recognised condition for years, it is real and can be disabling. Employers have a legal duty to carry out risk assessments and make the workplace as safe as possible. They also need to investigate any claims which are made. It should go without saying that any investigation must be carried out in an ethical fashion. Like many others, I doubt if a small private company could get away with the tactics of the LR, or receive just a slap on the wrist if it failed to make a reasonable risk assessment.
Phaedrus you just said it all in one sentence (RSI has been a recognised condition for years) I know of one person who had an operation for R.S.I over 20 years ago, so there is no reason for anybody not to know about it, the lady was a typist but also spent most of her free time knitting so what percentage of her condition was down to typing and what percentage was down to knitting?? There is such a thing as duty of care and that covers everybody including yourself so if you think you are at risk and it bothers you then you should get another job. As I have stated on previous posts all jobs have their own health risks attached so it is up to the individual to decide whether to take that risk or not. I might be wrong but as i understand it the L.R used to be civil servants and used to all the perks etc that comes with being a civil servant, they are no longer civil servants and maybe finding it hard to adjust to the real world.
Land Registry is an executive agency within the Ministry of Justice but I'm happy not to be a civil servant on your say so. Though as I'm one of the ones likely to be losing my job that may be more of a fact sooner rather than later.
Oh! Woe is me! No more feet up on the desk, drinking endless cups of tea, skiving and wasting taxpayers money in the land of Stereotopia.
As for the main OHEC story I don't wish to comment for, as like the overwhelming majority of posters on here, even I don't know the true facts or both sides of the story.

batmo says...
8:37pm Sun 13 Dec 09

A quote from a parliamentary question about this use of surveillance at Land Registry: "The nature of this as a test case established a likelihood of high costs in the defence of the case, in payments to individuals if the cases were found proven and potentially in significant change to the organisations core business processes and the equipment used."

http://www.parliamen
t.the-stationery-off
ice.co.uk/pa/cm20080
9/cmhansrd/cm090325/
text/90325w0012.htm

What do you think? Could it be Land Registry is well aware it is endangering its employees with poor equipment and software and is scared of the (small) cost of improving the user interface and equipment? You wouldn't believe how mouse-intensive and awkward to use it all is, simultaneously having to complete mapping screens (no drawing tablet, just a mouse!) and multiple complicated typing windows and dialogs. Staff have been under great pressure during housing booms and weren't even allowed a proper break until managers were forced to allow it after an HSE inspection. They reckoned looking away from the screen to read documents was a break. Poor Jane. If she had worked at a different Land Registry office she would have got help before being injured. I hope the managers involved will be forced to explain why they caused these problems which could have been so easily resolved if they hadn't decided all the claimants had suddenly decided to defraud their employer after years of faultless service.

Grated Orange says...
8:40pm Sun 13 Dec 09

I heard that the Land Registry actually sacked a cancer patient for not being able to attend work - were they making a false claim as well. They sadly died not long after - so it doesn't surprise me - I guess that persons doctors, nurses, specialists were all wrong as well were they. Is there any condition they recognise apart from "fat catitus" seems like their top management suffer from it - bonuses, 13% pay rises - are they a bank????

Grated Orange says...
9:09pm Sun 13 Dec 09

gerbil112 wrote:
I understand (from an insider at LR), that as an employer, they have bent over backwards to accommodate workers needs. Anti-glare screens, ergonomic work stations and chairs, etc. Also, as the Union decided not to proceed with this matter, they obviously thought that there was no chance of winning. If there was a chance, there are plenty of "No win, No fee" Lawyers that would have taken it on. Government employers have been seen by many, for years, as a meal-ticket when it comes to "injuries". As the department is laying off staff, I wonder if Mrs Brooke was one of those?
I can see the point being made, but it doesn't mean that a claim was false. A union takes fees from it's members - all it's members. And it has to decide when taking a matter to court what is the cost and the probabilty of actually winning. That of course means that the court might find in neithers favour or they could lose. The union has to consider and justify spending a large portion of members fees on a single action, sometinmes they may ballot the members - as it is their subscriptions being used. Also have to consider you are facing an employer that could have unlimited funds, unfortunately all to often these cases are dropped because of the above - this does not mean the claim was fraudulant.
No fee no win is a similar story - they will also only take on a case that they know that a very high success rate - again is their money they will be spending out on, so they will want a return. As the unions taking on an employer with unlimited funds is not a win - win situation.
So bare in mind these facts before you consider labelling - all the facts aren't out. The Land Registry believes it was fraudulant, the claimant not. The courts must now decide how this ends.

George Bubb D says...
9:35pm Sun 13 Dec 09

All of the employees have withdrawn their compensation claims - they got caught out in my opinion.
Well done the Land Registry I say

siratb says...
5:27pm Mon 14 Dec 09

I think the LR was perfectly within their rights to use video evidence to either prove or disprove a claim for RSI. Perhaps the gym was necessary to help the condition, perhaps it wasn't. I'm sure the doctor in question will testify as a witness should this become necessary.
.
I guess the LR just wants to be sure that this is a legitimate claim and not an excuse to try and get some free money out of them.

MikeatUpwey says...
6:27pm Mon 14 Dec 09

gerbil112 wrote:
I understand (from an insider at LR), that as an employer, they have bent over backwards to accommodate workers needs. Anti-glare screens, ergonomic work stations and chairs, etc. Also, as the Union decided not to proceed with this matter, they obviously thought that there was no chance of winning. If there was a chance, there are plenty of "No win, No fee" Lawyers that would have taken it on. Government employers have been seen by many, for years, as a meal-ticket when it comes to "injuries". As the department is laying off staff, I wonder if Mrs Brooke was one of those?
'insiders' at the Land Registry gerbil112, I thought we were merely employees. Methinks there maybe a few 'insiders' at work here!
I'm afraid your 'insider' is either misinformed or is being being a little economical with his 'facts'.
Yes the Land Registy have improved equipment and working practices, but not entirely out of the good of their hearts. This was done as a result of two rather damning reports, by outside consultants, into the use of display screen equipment at Land Registry. The first report was eventually published after pressure from PCS, who were also instrumental in trying to have management accept its findings, and the second report was commissioned after pressure from the Health and Safety Executive, who were not satisfied that LR were compliant in this respect. As a result of the findings of the second report LR were obliged to instigate most of the changes recommened by the report.
As for the Union not proceeding with the members original claims I would direct you to Grated Oranges comment above.

scorpio69 says...
8:14pm Mon 14 Dec 09

To one and all. Surely if Land Registry had nothing to hide they wouldn't be "bending over backwards for staff" gerbil112 and yes there are two sides to every story which is why the staff feel so strongly about what has happened to Mrs Brooke. Guarantee there will be more from this story to come out yet. Funny how Land Registry haven't hit back yet if they have nothing to hide me thinks!

Genghis says...
12:12pm Tue 15 Dec 09

scorpio69 wrote:
To one and all. Surely if Land Registry had nothing to hide they wouldn't be "bending over backwards for staff" gerbil112 and yes there are two sides to every story which is why the staff feel so strongly about what has happened to Mrs Brooke. Guarantee there will be more from this story to come out yet. Funny how Land Registry haven't hit back yet if they have nothing to hide me thinks!
For the Union's sake I really hope the LR's refusal to take part in a slanging match in the local rag is because they have something to hide. Logic tells me however that as this is subject to either a court case or tribunal they will be keeping their powder dry until then. Only then will both sides of the argument be fully revealed.

scorpio69 says...
7:25pm Thu 17 Dec 09

Check this out
http://www.parliamen
t.the-stationery-off
ice.co.uk/pa/cm20080
9/cmhansrd/cm090325/
text/90325w0012.htm


Land Registry staff on their way to a protest meeting Jane Brooke in Land Registry surveillance material

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Jane Brooke in Land Registry surveillance material



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