Dorset MPs divided over pay increase

Dorset Echo: South Dorset MP Richard Drax South Dorset MP Richard Drax

DORSET MPs are divided on a planned wage increase of 11 per cent.

West Dorset MP Oliver Letwin has pledged not to accept the increase and branded it 'inappropriate'.

But Richard Drax, MP for South Dorset, said MPs should accept the rise as it has been proposed by an independent body.

The Independent Parliamentary Standards Committee (IPSA), set up in 2009 in the wake of the expenses scandal, will reveal its proposals for MPs pay on Thursday.

Salaries will be increased by £7,600 to £74,000 from 2015, a rise of 11 per cent.

Mr Drax said: “I would abide by whatever IPSA recommends.

“I think if some MPs accept it and others don't there is going to be absolute chaos.

“If all the party leaders were to instruct MPs not to take it, then that would be something to be considered.”

He added: “The point is that it's an independent body, and if they are recommending a pay rise then they must have looked at the matter and felt that MPs should be paid more.”

But he added: “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.”

He admitted the move may 'stick in people's gullets'.
Mr Drax added: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise.

“It feels as though we are getting one better.

“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?”

The proposals also include plans to change pensions for MPs from matching their final salaries to matching their career average.

IPSA will announce on Thursday whether the proposals will go ahead.

Mr Letwin said he would not be accepting the increase.
He said: “It is not appropriate for MPs to receive such a pay rise at a time when pay rises in the rest of the public sector are being capped at one per cent.”

Annette Brooke, MP for Mid-Dorset and North Poole, is standing down at the next election.

She also criticised the rise.

Mrs Brooke said: “To talk about an 11 per cent pay increase is just unacceptable in these times of austerity, when people are being asked to make sacrifices.

“Personally I feel the rise should be phased in over five years after the general election.”

Mrs Brooke said she is standing down with the understanding that the resettlement grant provided to previous MPs will not be available to her. This is another proposal which IPSA will make an announcement on, on Thursday.

Comments (43)

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4:26pm Mon 9 Dec 13

wowfood says...

I feel sory for all the public sector workers we need who are currently being made redundant. I mean it must really suck for them to be let go because they're cutting back on wages, only to have MPs wages go up by around half the wage most of those "let go" were earning in the first place.
I feel sory for all the public sector workers we need who are currently being made redundant. I mean it must really suck for them to be let go because they're cutting back on wages, only to have MPs wages go up by around half the wage most of those "let go" were earning in the first place. wowfood

4:37pm Mon 9 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

Pigs and troughs spring to mind! Absolutely disgusting and inappropriate. First there was rigged postal voting, bias electoral boundaries in favour of the 'idle and feckless' party and now completely unjustified massive increase in salaries at the very very same time the tax paying plebs suffer the greatest fall in living standards and disposal income.
It is little wonder why the public have lost all confidence in broken Britain's politics and the establishments ability to help themselves out at every turn.
Pigs and troughs spring to mind! Absolutely disgusting and inappropriate. First there was rigged postal voting, bias electoral boundaries in favour of the 'idle and feckless' party and now completely unjustified massive increase in salaries at the very very same time the tax paying plebs suffer the greatest fall in living standards and disposal income. It is little wonder why the public have lost all confidence in broken Britain's politics and the establishments ability to help themselves out at every turn. cj07589

4:55pm Mon 9 Dec 13

shy talk says...

Now is the time for the all the party leaders to show some leadership and say NO to a pay raise.
Now is the time for the all the party leaders to show some leadership and say NO to a pay raise. shy talk

5:07pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Genghis says...

I feel it's great that the people who are most vulnerable and deserving are getting an 11% pay rise. After all we are all in this together and so it's about time these poor MPs are given the chance to share the luxuries that the rest of us take for granted. Why don't they come round and take the shirt of my back as well just for good measure.
I feel it's great that the people who are most vulnerable and deserving are getting an 11% pay rise. After all we are all in this together and so it's about time these poor MPs are given the chance to share the luxuries that the rest of us take for granted. Why don't they come round and take the shirt of my back as well just for good measure. Genghis

5:13pm Mon 9 Dec 13

David_divenghy2 says...

Drax won't need it, he will be creaming it from his (thanks for the golf clubs planning) eyesore solar panels.
Drax won't need it, he will be creaming it from his (thanks for the golf clubs planning) eyesore solar panels. David_divenghy2

5:32pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Giblet says...

The real idiots are the ones who voted for this pair in the first place...
The real idiots are the ones who voted for this pair in the first place... Giblet

6:06pm Mon 9 Dec 13

canibebothered says...

Free market thinking surely dictates that the correct rate of pay for the job is the amount that attracts enough applicants of the right quality. I was not aware that any seats were left uncontested at the last election nor is anybody seriously suggesting that there will be any left vacant after the next election so it seems to me that they are being paid enough. I seem to recall that when some other "independent" review bodies had the nerve to suggest higher pay rises than the govt wanted the country was deemed unable to afford them because of the economic situation. If the cap fits!
Free market thinking surely dictates that the correct rate of pay for the job is the amount that attracts enough applicants of the right quality. I was not aware that any seats were left uncontested at the last election nor is anybody seriously suggesting that there will be any left vacant after the next election so it seems to me that they are being paid enough. I seem to recall that when some other "independent" review bodies had the nerve to suggest higher pay rises than the govt wanted the country was deemed unable to afford them because of the economic situation. If the cap fits! canibebothered

6:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Genghis says...

Giblet wrote:
The real idiots are the ones who voted for this pair in the first place...
To be fair though it wouldn't be any different whoever was voted in. They'd all have their snouts in the trough. It's rare that any MP would reject it. I only know of three from the past, Dave Nellist, Terry Fields and Pat Wall. They would only take the average wage of a skilled worker in their constituencies the remainder of their pay (54% in Mr Nellist's case) they donated to charitable and political causes.
[quote][p][bold]Giblet[/bold] wrote: The real idiots are the ones who voted for this pair in the first place...[/p][/quote]To be fair though it wouldn't be any different whoever was voted in. They'd all have their snouts in the trough. It's rare that any MP would reject it. I only know of three from the past, Dave Nellist, Terry Fields and Pat Wall. They would only take the average wage of a skilled worker in their constituencies the remainder of their pay (54% in Mr Nellist's case) they donated to charitable and political causes. Genghis

6:51pm Mon 9 Dec 13

zoebs36 says...

Richard "Greed" Drax was bound to agree.
Richard "Greed" Drax was bound to agree. zoebs36

7:55pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Dorset Boy says...

MP's 11% rise.
Public sector front line officers, pay cut under 'job evaluation' I know this true, as I was once a front line officer
MP's 11% rise. Public sector front line officers, pay cut under 'job evaluation' I know this true, as I was once a front line officer Dorset Boy

8:30pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Groaner says...

An independent body is set up to deal with all the MPs' pay and expenses.

If the MPs then decide they don't like what that body decides and over-rule it, where does that leave the so called independent body.

Drax is logically correct and is stuck - he has to accept the opinion of the independent body even though he might not like it.
An independent body is set up to deal with all the MPs' pay and expenses. If the MPs then decide they don't like what that body decides and over-rule it, where does that leave the so called independent body. Drax is logically correct and is stuck - he has to accept the opinion of the independent body even though he might not like it. Groaner

8:41pm Mon 9 Dec 13

Genghis says...

Groaner wrote:
An independent body is set up to deal with all the MPs' pay and expenses.

If the MPs then decide they don't like what that body decides and over-rule it, where does that leave the so called independent body.

Drax is logically correct and is stuck - he has to accept the opinion of the independent body even though he might not like it.
I've been involved in similar pay reviews. It's funny how the politicians can over rule them when it's somebody else's pay that is subject to the independent recommendation.
[quote][p][bold]Groaner[/bold] wrote: An independent body is set up to deal with all the MPs' pay and expenses. If the MPs then decide they don't like what that body decides and over-rule it, where does that leave the so called independent body. Drax is logically correct and is stuck - he has to accept the opinion of the independent body even though he might not like it.[/p][/quote]I've been involved in similar pay reviews. It's funny how the politicians can over rule them when it's somebody else's pay that is subject to the independent recommendation. Genghis

9:17pm Mon 9 Dec 13

smilealoft44 says...

Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see. smilealoft44

9:57pm Mon 9 Dec 13

navelgazer says...

The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view.

Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise.
No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut!

Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.”
There is real leadership for you.....

Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?”

I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations.

When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one)

The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA
seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth.

I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry.

I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians.

Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings.
The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view. Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise. No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut! Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.” There is real leadership for you..... Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?” I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations. When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one) The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth. I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry. I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians. Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings. navelgazer

10:02pm Mon 9 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
[quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change? cj07589

10:20pm Mon 9 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

navelgazer wrote:
The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view.

Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise.
No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut!

Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.”
There is real leadership for you.....

Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?”

I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations.

When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one)

The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA
seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth.

I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry.

I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians.

Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings.
Ur.........what savings would that be? I like many other working class people have been robbed by successive governments to fund stupid policies such as Gordon 'I bankrupted the country, sold all the gold for nothing and robbed private sector pensions' Brown's make child poverty history where in typical NU liebour thinking they simply threw endless amounts of money was the answer, so robbing Paul to pay Peter and so goes on the merry go around we go again. I do wonder what's Ed's motivation for cheap political point scoring at this juncture after all it's well known that labour has the highest proportion of fiddling MPs caught cheating the public purse with false expense claims, house flipping and fraudulent irregularities etc. Does he honestly expect the public to be so forgetful so quickly?
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view. Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise. No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut! Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.” There is real leadership for you..... Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?” I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations. When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one) The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth. I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry. I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians. Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings.[/p][/quote]Ur.........what savings would that be? I like many other working class people have been robbed by successive governments to fund stupid policies such as Gordon 'I bankrupted the country, sold all the gold for nothing and robbed private sector pensions' Brown's make child poverty history where in typical NU liebour thinking they simply threw endless amounts of money was the answer, so robbing Paul to pay Peter and so goes on the merry go around we go again. I do wonder what's Ed's motivation for cheap political point scoring at this juncture after all it's well known that labour has the highest proportion of fiddling MPs caught cheating the public purse with false expense claims, house flipping and fraudulent irregularities etc. Does he honestly expect the public to be so forgetful so quickly? cj07589

10:27pm Mon 9 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath. woodsedge

12:43am Tue 10 Dec 13

ijwufo68 says...

Wake up!!!
While this lot are kissing our baby's, with the other two hands they are stealing the baby's lollipops!!!!!!
Wake up!!! While this lot are kissing our baby's, with the other two hands they are stealing the baby's lollipops!!!!!! ijwufo68

7:19am Tue 10 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st
arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.[/p][/quote]Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st arting to see a pattern with you aren't we? cj07589

7:57am Tue 10 Dec 13

Parkstreetshufle says...

We are headed for another medieval period where a large portion of society that provide the earning, the essential services, the day to day existence is contrasted by the 'creamers' that essentially do next to nothing except control the flow of money and decide on the distribution of resources. The question as to why the set of select elite should have such power and control is a very very good one in my opinion.
It's quite obvious that the austerity measures had better include MPs above inflation pay rises or parliament will find its employers taking to the streets in protest...
We are headed for another medieval period where a large portion of society that provide the earning, the essential services, the day to day existence is contrasted by the 'creamers' that essentially do next to nothing except control the flow of money and decide on the distribution of resources. The question as to why the set of select elite should have such power and control is a very very good one in my opinion. It's quite obvious that the austerity measures had better include MPs above inflation pay rises or parliament will find its employers taking to the streets in protest... Parkstreetshufle

8:00am Tue 10 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st

arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?
Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.[/p][/quote]Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?[/p][/quote]Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to? woodsedge

8:03am Tue 10 Dec 13

ronfogg says...

While both Letwin and Drax are "toffs" there is in fact a massive difference between them. Letwin is a very intelligent man. In the past he's actually said what he thinks but now seems to be a yes man for the Conservatives. Drax, on the other hand, goes his own way (which you have to admire him for) but is clearly intellectually not up to the job.

I agree with the above comment about UKIP. The idea that the future lies with UKIP is indeed laughable.
While both Letwin and Drax are "toffs" there is in fact a massive difference between them. Letwin is a very intelligent man. In the past he's actually said what he thinks but now seems to be a yes man for the Conservatives. Drax, on the other hand, goes his own way (which you have to admire him for) but is clearly intellectually not up to the job. I agree with the above comment about UKIP. The idea that the future lies with UKIP is indeed laughable. ronfogg

10:08am Tue 10 Dec 13

navelgazer says...

@ cj07589 says... (10:20pm Mon 9 Dec 13)


Ur.........what savings would that be? I like many other working class people have been robbed by successive governments to fund stupid policies such as Gordon 'I bankrupted the country, sold all the gold for nothing and robbed private sector pensions' Brown's make child poverty history where in typical NU liebour thinking they simply threw endless amounts of money was the answer, so robbing Paul to pay Peter and so goes on the merry go around we go again. I do wonder what's Ed's motivation for cheap political point scoring at this juncture after all it's well known that labour has the highest proportion of fiddling MPs caught cheating the public purse with false expense claims, house flipping and fraudulent irregularities etc. Does he honestly expect the public to be so forgetful so quickly?

--------------------
--------------------
------


I was being sarcastic, of course. I too have been disadvantaged, particularly since 2010...... and blood boils when Drax and his ILK (from any party) believe they have a right to a pay increase when our incomes are being cut.

Incidentally, don’t believe that Milliband is out for CHEAP political point scoring. On this issue, and others of late, he has shown Cameron and Clegg to be out of touch, and scrambling for an alternative. It’s an irony that many good ideas and policies are dismissed merely because they come from ‘the benches opposite’

But you raise a couple of other points that are worthy of clarification:

GOLD:
The selling of 395 tons of gold was intended to diversify the assets of the UK's reserves away from gold, which was deemed to be too volatile, and to re-invest in foreign currency deposits – including Euros – that were considered a better and more stable investment
Studies by the treasury had shown that the overall volatility of the UK's reserves could be reduced by 20% from the sale.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

REPUTATION of Parliament:
Yes, I do agree that MPs fiddling has done nothing to enhance their reputation. Worse, it has damaged the image of parliament as a whole, because it’s the intent to fiddle that matters just as much as the scale; and members of ALL parties were involved.

It's worth noting that a study of the possible influence of the voting system on MPs behaviour concluded that those MPs with the safest seats were twice as likely as those with the most marginal seats to be involved in the expenses row.

You mentioned that the greatest proportion of fiddlers came from the Labour Party. Given their majority at the time, that is statistically likely, but just for the record, Labour MPs, Elliot Morley, David Chaytor and Jim Devine, Eric Illsley, and Conservative peers Lord Hanningfield, Lord Taylor of Warwick, and Paul White, Baron Hanningfield were all convicted.

Many MPs attempted to duck out of it by resigning or standing down, or were thrown out by their party.

Labour
• Ben Chapman
• Harry Cohen
• Ian Gibson
• Eric Illsley
• Denis MacShane
• Anne Moffat
• Margaret Moran

Conservative
• Andrew MacKay, His wife, Julie Kirkbride
• Douglas Hogg
• Anthony Steen Sir Peter Viggers
• Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Winterton
• Christopher Fraser
• Ian Taylor

Some managed to hang on.

No doubt Mr Letwin, for example, regrets having to repay a bill for £2,145 for replacing a leaking pipe under the tennis court at his constituency home, which he had claimed on his parliamentary expenses.

Conservative Derek Conway was alleged in May 2007 to have employed and paid his son, a student at the time. The matter was forwarded to the House of Commons Standards and Privileges Committee, whose report dated 28 January 2008 concluded there was no record of such work. Conway was suspended for 10 days and ordered to repay £13,000 Conway was also expelled from the party. A second case a year later found he had done the same with regard to his other son.

Chairman of the Conservative Party Caroline Spelman was alleged in June 2008 to have paid for her nanny out of parliamentary expenses during her early years in Parliament, between 1997 and 1998—an allegation that became known as "Nannygate". It was ruled that she had inadvertently "misapplied part of her parliamentary allowances", but calls for her sacking were rebutted since “she might not have been aware of the rules governing the use or purpose of parliamentary allowances”. The committee recommended that Spelman repay £9,600.

Eric Pickles was claiming for a second home just 37 miles from his main home.

David Laws claimed over £40K for the second home, whilst at the time he was renting rooms from his long-term partner James Lundie.

That'll do for now :)
@ cj07589 says... (10:20pm Mon 9 Dec 13) Ur.........what savings would that be? I like many other working class people have been robbed by successive governments to fund stupid policies such as Gordon 'I bankrupted the country, sold all the gold for nothing and robbed private sector pensions' Brown's make child poverty history where in typical NU liebour thinking they simply threw endless amounts of money was the answer, so robbing Paul to pay Peter and so goes on the merry go around we go again. I do wonder what's Ed's motivation for cheap political point scoring at this juncture after all it's well known that labour has the highest proportion of fiddling MPs caught cheating the public purse with false expense claims, house flipping and fraudulent irregularities etc. Does he honestly expect the public to be so forgetful so quickly? -------------------- -------------------- ------ I was being sarcastic, of course. I too have been disadvantaged, particularly since 2010...... and blood boils when Drax and his ILK (from any party) believe they have a right to a pay increase when our incomes are being cut. Incidentally, don’t believe that Milliband is out for CHEAP political point scoring. On this issue, and others of late, he has shown Cameron and Clegg to be out of touch, and scrambling for an alternative. It’s an irony that many good ideas and policies are dismissed merely because they come from ‘the benches opposite’ But you raise a couple of other points that are worthy of clarification: GOLD: The selling of 395 tons of gold was intended to diversify the assets of the UK's reserves away from gold, which was deemed to be too volatile, and to re-invest in foreign currency deposits – including Euros – that were considered a better and more stable investment Studies by the treasury had shown that the overall volatility of the UK's reserves could be reduced by 20% from the sale. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. REPUTATION of Parliament: Yes, I do agree that MPs fiddling has done nothing to enhance their reputation. Worse, it has damaged the image of parliament as a whole, because it’s the intent to fiddle that matters just as much as the scale; and members of ALL parties were involved. It's worth noting that a study of the possible influence of the voting system on MPs behaviour concluded that those MPs with the safest seats were twice as likely as those with the most marginal seats to be involved in the expenses row. You mentioned that the greatest proportion of fiddlers came from the Labour Party. Given their majority at the time, that is statistically likely, but just for the record, Labour MPs, Elliot Morley, David Chaytor and Jim Devine, Eric Illsley, and Conservative peers Lord Hanningfield, Lord Taylor of Warwick, and Paul White, Baron Hanningfield were all convicted. Many MPs attempted to duck out of it by resigning or standing down, or were thrown out by their party. Labour • Ben Chapman • Harry Cohen • Ian Gibson • Eric Illsley • Denis MacShane • Anne Moffat • Margaret Moran Conservative • Andrew MacKay, His wife, Julie Kirkbride • Douglas Hogg • Anthony Steen Sir Peter Viggers • Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Winterton • Christopher Fraser • Ian Taylor Some managed to hang on. No doubt Mr Letwin, for example, regrets having to repay a bill for £2,145 for replacing a leaking pipe under the tennis court at his constituency home, which he had claimed on his parliamentary expenses. Conservative Derek Conway was alleged in May 2007 to have employed and paid his son, a student at the time. The matter was forwarded to the House of Commons Standards and Privileges Committee, whose report dated 28 January 2008 concluded there was no record of such work. Conway was suspended for 10 days and ordered to repay £13,000 Conway was also expelled from the party. A second case a year later found he had done the same with regard to his other son. Chairman of the Conservative Party Caroline Spelman was alleged in June 2008 to have paid for her nanny out of parliamentary expenses during her early years in Parliament, between 1997 and 1998—an allegation that became known as "Nannygate". It was ruled that she had inadvertently "misapplied part of her parliamentary allowances", but calls for her sacking were rebutted since “she might not have been aware of the rules governing the use or purpose of parliamentary allowances”. The committee recommended that Spelman repay £9,600. Eric Pickles was claiming for a second home just 37 miles from his main home. David Laws claimed over £40K for the second home, whilst at the time he was renting rooms from his long-term partner James Lundie. That'll do for now :) navelgazer

12:33pm Tue 10 Dec 13

JamesYoung says...

navelgazer wrote:
The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view.

Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise.
No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut!

Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.”
There is real leadership for you.....

Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?”

I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations.

When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one)

The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA
seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth.

I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry.

I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians.

Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings.
It's been suggested that the gold sale was actually an emergency measure to prop up a major bank suffering a liquidity crisis.
As for Brown dealing with poverty, i'm afraid i disagree. Surely, he introduced some measures, such as the Child Trust Fund (which, because the money couldn't be touched until the child was 18, did nothing to alleviate child poverty) , but most of the rest of what he did was designed not to reduce poverty, but to subsidise private profits. Who do you think the real beneficiaries of the minimum wage and the tax credit systems are? Karl Marx once said that most puzzles could be solved by asking the question "who benefits?".
Lastly, Brown actively legislated to enable banks to behave in ever more risky ways. The result was a massive housing bubble and a consumer debt boom, which are impoverishing people even now, 6 years on from the crash.
As for your comments about the Tory party rolling back what little progress there had been, sadly i agree with you. And i say that as a lifelong Tory voter in general elections.
[quote][p][bold]navelgazer[/bold] wrote: The election literature that I received from Drax persuaded me that he’s not the sharpest tool in the box, and that he has a total lack of empathy and / or leadership skills. His pronouncements and actions since have done nothing to change that view. Drax Said: “I can understand why the public feel as they do on this and I'm sure some are grieved that they are not getting a pay rise. No Mr Drax, you DON’T understand... most of us have actually taken a pay cut! Drax said “If it was unanimous across the house that all MPs decided together not to take the increase then I would also turn it down.” There is real leadership for you..... Drax said....“But how can you set up an independent body to make recommendations and then decide that these recommendations are wrong?” I imagine that if IPSA had decided that MPs pay should follow the downward trend that most of us have experienced, Drax would then have spoken out against “wrong” recommendations. When this government has previously found that particular practices and recommendations are to its disadvantage, it has rushed through legislation to give them what they want. (Hunt is doing that right now after the courts decided that he exceeded his authority when he ordered the closure of NHS wards). So why can’t they do likewise in this instance? (We all know the answer to that one) The independent body mentioned by Drax was indeed set up to look at MP’s pay, but it appears to have taken little note of the fact that most of us have suffered a drop in living standards since the last election. (One of the worst in the EU, in fact, 5.5% since 2010, adjusted for inflation, only Greece, Portugal, and the Netherlands faring worse). Instead, IPSA seems to be reflecting the average MPs feeling of entitlement, rather than worth. I was no great fan of Gordon Brown, but he did make the tackling of poverty a priority. This government has reversed the progress (confirmed by EU advisors). Incomes have fallen whilst prices have risen, and Food-Banks are a growth industry. I note that Ed Milliband has taken a lead by requesting cross-party talks to stop the pay rise of almost £8000 because the idea is endangering public confidence in politicians. Perhaps all politicians the book ‘secular cycles’ by Prof Peter Turchin and Sergey A. Nefedov whose studies have accurately modelled the reasons behind the fall of successive societies. A key element is class divisiveness, i.e., the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer and the eventual collapse of the upper class as a result, as they could no longer live off of the poor. This resulted in not only the poor revolting, but also the upper class battling with each other. If you feel we are almost at that stage, you are not alone. The researchers predict 2020... so still time to spend your savings.[/p][/quote]It's been suggested that the gold sale was actually an emergency measure to prop up a major bank suffering a liquidity crisis. As for Brown dealing with poverty, i'm afraid i disagree. Surely, he introduced some measures, such as the Child Trust Fund (which, because the money couldn't be touched until the child was 18, did nothing to alleviate child poverty) , but most of the rest of what he did was designed not to reduce poverty, but to subsidise private profits. Who do you think the real beneficiaries of the minimum wage and the tax credit systems are? Karl Marx once said that most puzzles could be solved by asking the question "who benefits?". Lastly, Brown actively legislated to enable banks to behave in ever more risky ways. The result was a massive housing bubble and a consumer debt boom, which are impoverishing people even now, 6 years on from the crash. As for your comments about the Tory party rolling back what little progress there had been, sadly i agree with you. And i say that as a lifelong Tory voter in general elections. JamesYoung

12:51pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Parkstreetshufle says...

I'm sure we are all agreed that the ( not so ) spectre of MP expenses alone will be enough ( should be enough ) to, at the very least, put paid to a rise in MP wages gliding silently through parliament.
What's more perplexing to me is why nobody is complaining about the most commented list item below this one ( that's to say why is it not more commented than this subject ), CEO Weymouth and Portland to retire from salary of nearly £120,000.
I'm willing to argue out who / which has done least work / most harm for most pay...the MPs are annoying and out of order, but claiming a whopping public pension when most of what you have done has been treading water whilst knowing that tough decisions need to be made, is a lot worse I think.
I'm sure we are all agreed that the ( not so ) spectre of MP expenses alone will be enough ( should be enough ) to, at the very least, put paid to a rise in MP wages gliding silently through parliament. What's more perplexing to me is why nobody is complaining about the most commented list item below this one ( that's to say why is it not more commented than this subject ), CEO Weymouth and Portland to retire from salary of nearly £120,000. I'm willing to argue out who / which has done least work / most harm for most pay...the MPs are annoying and out of order, but claiming a whopping public pension when most of what you have done has been treading water whilst knowing that tough decisions need to be made, is a lot worse I think. Parkstreetshufle

12:52pm Tue 10 Dec 13

February1948 says...

Monday 9th December: campaign for living wage for Dorset County Council Employees.
Monday 9th December: 11% rise for MPs.
Something dreadfully wrong here, I think.
Monday 9th December: campaign for living wage for Dorset County Council Employees. Monday 9th December: 11% rise for MPs. Something dreadfully wrong here, I think. February1948

1:48pm Tue 10 Dec 13

navelgazer says...

@JamesYoung

Yes, I was aware of the speculation that the gold was sold to support one or more struggling banks, but as iyt is only speculation I didn't mention it.

Regarding the measures to reduce Child Povert, you may wish to look at this link: http://www.crin.org/
docs/TacklingPoverty
.pdf

It's an assessment - authored by Columbia University and the LSE - of the factors, mechanisms, and success. It seeks to determine what the USA can learn from the UK example:

Extract:
In 1999, then Prime Minister Tony Blair made a remarkable pledge to end child poverty, and over the subsequent decade, he and Gordon Brown (initially as Chancellor, and later as Prime Minister) carried out an ambitious and multi-faceted anti-poverty campaign. Although their New Labour government did not succeed in ending child poverty, they did make a substantial dent in it, reducing child poverty by more than half if measured in absolute terms as we do in the United States. Remarkably, their success in reducing child poverty continued even during the recession, as child poverty fell again in the last year, in sharp contrast to the pattern for the United States, where child poverty has now reached its highest level in 20 years. "

Ref your comment about "Who Benefits", in the long term we all do... It's explained in the link.
The greatest danger comes from excessive inequality of income and opportunity... and I say that as an ex-lifelong Tory voter and one-time leaflet-pusher.

Ref Brown and deregulation:
Ex-Chancellor Nigel Lawson has conceded that seeds of the 2007 - 2012 financial crisis were sown during his tenure, when in 1986 the then Tory Government took action to restore and maintain London's status as the Financial Capital. Thatcher's Government decided that the answer lay in an unfettered (i.e. unregulated) free market.
The outcome was what became known as the 'Big Bang', and Lawson now concedes that the financial crisis was an unintended consequence.
In the 90's, the banks complained that they were still over-regulated. The Tories added that the city's creativity (an appropriate word in hindsight) was being stifled. Had they been less supportive of the banks, the world and my bank balance might be a totally different place.

Gordon Bown has said
"We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said. "So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake. We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system. That was our mistake, but I'm afraid it was a mistake made by just about everybody who was in the regulatory business."
@JamesYoung Yes, I was aware of the speculation that the gold was sold to support one or more struggling banks, but as iyt is only speculation I didn't mention it. Regarding the measures to reduce Child Povert, you may wish to look at this link: http://www.crin.org/ docs/TacklingPoverty .pdf It's an assessment - authored by Columbia University and the LSE - of the factors, mechanisms, and success. It seeks to determine what the USA can learn from the UK example: Extract: In 1999, then Prime Minister Tony Blair made a remarkable pledge to end child poverty, and over the subsequent decade, he and Gordon Brown (initially as Chancellor, and later as Prime Minister) carried out an ambitious and multi-faceted anti-poverty campaign. Although their New Labour government did not succeed in ending child poverty, they did make a substantial dent in it, reducing child poverty by more than half if measured in absolute terms as we do in the United States. Remarkably, their success in reducing child poverty continued even during the recession, as child poverty fell again in the last year, in sharp contrast to the pattern for the United States, where child poverty has now reached its highest level in 20 years. " Ref your comment about "Who Benefits", in the long term we all do... It's explained in the link. The greatest danger comes from excessive inequality of income and opportunity... and I say that as an ex-lifelong Tory voter and one-time leaflet-pusher. Ref Brown and deregulation: Ex-Chancellor Nigel Lawson has conceded that seeds of the 2007 - 2012 financial crisis were sown during his tenure, when in 1986 the then Tory Government took action to restore and maintain London's status as the Financial Capital. Thatcher's Government decided that the answer lay in an unfettered (i.e. unregulated) free market. The outcome was what became known as the 'Big Bang', and Lawson now concedes that the financial crisis was an unintended consequence. In the 90's, the banks complained that they were still over-regulated. The Tories added that the city's creativity (an appropriate word in hindsight) was being stifled. Had they been less supportive of the banks, the world and my bank balance might be a totally different place. Gordon Bown has said "We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said. "So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake. We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system. That was our mistake, but I'm afraid it was a mistake made by just about everybody who was in the regulatory business." navelgazer

1:54pm Tue 10 Dec 13

navelgazer says...

Dear Echo,
How about an edit or preview function?

Link from previous post (response to JamesYoung) should be
http://www.crin.org/
docs/TacklingPoverty
.pdf
Dear Echo, How about an edit or preview function? Link from previous post (response to JamesYoung) should be http://www.crin.org/ docs/TacklingPoverty .pdf navelgazer

2:13pm Tue 10 Dec 13

smilealoft44 says...

I thought this item was about M P s pay. Why the distraction. We know they are greedy.
I thought this item was about M P s pay. Why the distraction. We know they are greedy. smilealoft44

3:05pm Tue 10 Dec 13

Genghis says...

cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
I take it you mean UKIP. The party whose MEPs will also be getting the 11% pay rise. The party whose MEPs rake in the expenses just as all the other parties MEPs and MPS do. Looks like the real change is absolutely no different to the rest.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]I take it you mean UKIP. The party whose MEPs will also be getting the 11% pay rise. The party whose MEPs rake in the expenses just as all the other parties MEPs and MPS do. Looks like the real change is absolutely no different to the rest. Genghis

4:55pm Tue 10 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st


arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?
Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?
CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share?
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.[/p][/quote]Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?[/p][/quote]Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?[/p][/quote]CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share? woodsedge

5:35pm Tue 10 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

woodsedge wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st



arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?
Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?
CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share?
No who I consider worthy of voting for is my business, I will leave you to exercise your own judgement.
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.[/p][/quote]Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?[/p][/quote]Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?[/p][/quote]CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share?[/p][/quote]No who I consider worthy of voting for is my business, I will leave you to exercise your own judgement. cj07589

7:23pm Tue 10 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
smilealoft44 wrote:
Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase.
One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?
A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.
Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st




arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?
Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?
CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share?
No who I consider worthy of voting for is my business, I will leave you to exercise your own judgement.
So not Labour, Tories, liberal or UKIP, Oh dear, that says more about you than I ever could.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smilealoft44[/bold] wrote: Food banks, Bedroom tax, Cuts in public spending, Working class hit from all directions. Lets hope the public vote these people who want to accept the pay rise out. Of course richard could give all of the pay rise to a local charity for the needey. Or stick it in his back pocket. We will see.[/p][/quote]I wholeheartedly agree with your point that the least well off and working poor deserve better than a slap in the face by lim/lie/con MP's all showing contempt if they accept the pay increase. One point of correction if you receive a subsidy and it's reduced then it's wholly incorrect to refer to it as a tax. Tax is payed based on earnings and excludes handouts. Bedroom tax is a deliberately emotive invoking term dreamed up by those liebour champagne socialist jam always tomorrow lying union sponsored pillocks. We need to remember at the next general elections that the three main piggy parties have been fixated in helping themselves to the feeding trough and they all have a vested interest in ensuring it continues therefore the suggestion that they would not accept the pay-rise is equivalent to turkey's voting for Christmas. Remember you do have a choice at the next elections, why vote for the same bad medicine every 5years isn't it time for real change?[/p][/quote]A party political broadcast on behalf of UKIP by someone working abroad and not paying any taxes in the UK!!! If you think UKIP are capable of being an alternative to the usual bunch of below par mainstream parties you are sadly deluded. Run the country, they couldn't run a bath.[/p][/quote]Coming from a brain washed union rep who subscribes to something from nothing culture. At least I'm not naive enough to believe the jam tomorrow empty promises and the vote buying tricks of the established traitor parties who couldn't care about the average joe. Sadly its fools like you unable to think independently and understand that a vote for the three main traitor parties is nothing short of a wasted vote. PS woodedge sorry to blow your weak misinformed argument but I've changed employment and now work for a top blue chip British company in the UK, and I've never mentioned UKIP so another wrong assumption........st arting to see a pattern with you aren't we?[/p][/quote]Welcome back cj! So if it's not UKIP who is the choose you refer to?[/p][/quote]CJ if "we have a choice" which party if not the mainstream or UKIP? Or are you to embarrassed to share?[/p][/quote]No who I consider worthy of voting for is my business, I will leave you to exercise your own judgement.[/p][/quote]So not Labour, Tories, liberal or UKIP, Oh dear, that says more about you than I ever could. woodsedge

9:29pm Tue 10 Dec 13

ksmain says...

Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple.

MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy.

Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase.

Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world.

To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.
Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple. MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy. Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase. Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world. To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut. ksmain

9:58pm Tue 10 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

ksmain wrote:
Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple.

MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy.

Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase.

Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world.

To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.
At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot.
[quote][p][bold]ksmain[/bold] wrote: Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple. MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy. Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase. Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world. To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.[/p][/quote]At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot. woodsedge

8:11pm Wed 11 Dec 13

ronfogg says...

I see Richard Drax has put his foot in it again, regarding Sun page 3 girls.

He's looking more and more like a highly suitable candidate for UKIP, and a suitable colleague for Godfrey Bloom.
I see Richard Drax has put his foot in it again, regarding Sun page 3 girls. He's looking more and more like a highly suitable candidate for UKIP, and a suitable colleague for Godfrey Bloom. ronfogg

8:23am Thu 12 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

woodsedge wrote:
ksmain wrote:
Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple.

MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy.

Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase.

Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world.

To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.
At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot.
Though we agree to disagree on most things, I do commend your statement you are absolutely correct we do need to stop infighting and start to hold politicians to account so very well said so in spirit of the season my best wishes for the festive celebrations ahead.
[quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ksmain[/bold] wrote: Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple. MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy. Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase. Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world. To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.[/p][/quote]At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot.[/p][/quote]Though we agree to disagree on most things, I do commend your statement you are absolutely correct we do need to stop infighting and start to hold politicians to account so very well said so in spirit of the season my best wishes for the festive celebrations ahead. cj07589

2:46pm Thu 12 Dec 13

woodsedge says...

cj07589 wrote:
woodsedge wrote:
ksmain wrote:
Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple.

MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy.

Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase.

Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world.

To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.
At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot.
Though we agree to disagree on most things, I do commend your statement you are absolutely correct we do need to stop infighting and start to hold politicians to account so very well said so in spirit of the season my best wishes for the festive celebrations ahead.
cj, you are right in that we may disagree on some issues but it would appear that we have some middle ground over politicians. I consider myself to be neither left or right of centre and I try to live a good life trying to give something back along the way. Unfortunately this cannot be said about the embarrassing current crop of visionless politicians. May I also wish you and yours a great Christmas
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]woodsedge[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ksmain[/bold] wrote: Regardless of the comments above (which seem like irrelevant drivel) the argument to me is really simple. MPs of all parties have been urging the working public to forgo pay rises and pay cuts as austerity measures to help the economy. Yet they deem it appropriate to accept an 11% pay increase. Clearly they, and some bankers who are again accepting huge bonuses, do not seem to live in the real world. To me, they are saying to the rest of us, 'Don't so as I do, do as I say'. And how do they expect us to take them seriously the next time they ask us to forgo a pay rise/ take a pay cut.[/p][/quote]At last, people are starting to lay the blame where it belongs, firmly at the feet of the politicians and the bankers. All those politicians red, blue and yellow who have substantial personal fortunes, like Drax, shouldn't be taking a salary in the first place. Bankers haven't learnt and basically do not care about public opinion, we need legislation to award performance but not the ridiculous amounts that are again being paid. Working people need to stop taking lumps out of each other and start speaking up against those that keep us firmly under their boot.[/p][/quote]Though we agree to disagree on most things, I do commend your statement you are absolutely correct we do need to stop infighting and start to hold politicians to account so very well said so in spirit of the season my best wishes for the festive celebrations ahead.[/p][/quote]cj, you are right in that we may disagree on some issues but it would appear that we have some middle ground over politicians. I consider myself to be neither left or right of centre and I try to live a good life trying to give something back along the way. Unfortunately this cannot be said about the embarrassing current crop of visionless politicians. May I also wish you and yours a great Christmas woodsedge

7:04pm Thu 12 Dec 13

Diesel Dog says...

My pay has decreased by 11% in real terms in the last 3 years. Its wrong for your pay rise.

Dad was right the politicians golden question is "What can you do for me?"

He said that in 1971 Nothing much has changed except single mums take home more than me for a 60 hour week at 50% over the minimum wage,

Pension don't even ask.
My pay has decreased by 11% in real terms in the last 3 years. Its wrong for your pay rise. Dad was right the politicians golden question is "What can you do for me?" He said that in 1971 Nothing much has changed except single mums take home more than me for a 60 hour week at 50% over the minimum wage, Pension don't even ask. Diesel Dog

12:33pm Fri 13 Dec 13

organizedconfusion says...

Very shallow & uneducated to say 'those of you who voted them 2 in'. They got in because at the time the majority wanted Labour out! Put your real money where your mouth is & vote for anything apart from the big 2 ding dong tennis players at the next election!
Very shallow & uneducated to say 'those of you who voted them 2 in'. They got in because at the time the majority wanted Labour out! Put your real money where your mouth is & vote for anything apart from the big 2 ding dong tennis players at the next election! organizedconfusion

12:52pm Fri 13 Dec 13

Old Bill says...

Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess.
Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess. Old Bill

5:44pm Fri 13 Dec 13

cj07589 says...

Old Bill wrote:
Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess.
Or u-turn (flip flop) Dave's referendum promise............c
an't wait until 2015 it couldn't come soon enough.
[quote][p][bold]Old Bill[/bold] wrote: Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess.[/p][/quote]Or u-turn (flip flop) Dave's referendum promise............c an't wait until 2015 it couldn't come soon enough. cj07589

7:34pm Fri 13 Dec 13

ronfogg says...

cj07589 wrote:
Old Bill wrote:
Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess.
Or u-turn (flip flop) Dave's referendum promise............c

an't wait until 2015 it couldn't come soon enough.
I think you'll find that Dave promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty which was already in force when he became PM
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Old Bill[/bold] wrote: Richard Drax. A piggy with his nose in the trough. 'We're all in it together. Don't make me f-----g laugh. We'll remember this Richard come 2015 as we will also remember Mr Clegg and his promise about tution fess.[/p][/quote]Or u-turn (flip flop) Dave's referendum promise............c an't wait until 2015 it couldn't come soon enough.[/p][/quote]I think you'll find that Dave promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty which was already in force when he became PM ronfogg

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