Dorset PCC elections: Independent candidate Martyn Underhill

• Tell us about where you are from, your past employment and what qualifies you for the position of Dorset’s PCC

I grew up in Lincolnshire and Cyprus, my parents were in the armed forces. Margaret Thatcher was a governor at my boarding school. I joined the police in London and ended up working in her [Margaret Thatcher’s] constituency, so there are a few links there.

I joined the Metropolitan Police in the late 70s and later transferred to Sussex as I wanted to raise my family outside London.

I retired from the police force after 30 years but did a lot of stuff under cover, surveillance, I went on to run murder inquiries.

I worked on the Sarah Payne case. That fired me up to start safeguarding children. I moved to Dorset and campaigned to introduce Clare’s Law.

I moved here in 2009 and did an awful lot of charity work. I am still immersed in that – Turn Your Back, an independent knife charity, I helped set up Acts Fast, looking after survivors of child sexual abuse, families traumatised by what has happened. They look after the child and non-offending parent.

I am the vice chair of Bourne Free, they put on gay pride march. I work with Safewise, keeping people safe on the roads and at home and also West Howe Community enterprise which improves the esteem of people in West Howe.

Nationally I am the advisor of a missing person’s charity.

My wife does not see much of me. I have had to pull away from a lot of the charity work because of the election but I will go back to it. I love it; it defines me as a person.

• What do you see as most important function of the role?

Over and above everything else is challenging the police on behalf of the public. A good example is tasers – they were being used inside cell blocks in Dorset.

When I became aware of that I challenged it. I took that nationally; that led to a use of force review. That’s going to define the way force is used.

From April there will be a database which records when violence is used by a police officer on an offender and everyone will be able to access that online. That came about because I challenged taser use in Dorset.

I also challenged them over 101 – we have invested a lot of money, there are 12 more staff answering the phones for 101.

You have to challenge the police otherwise they do not deliver what is required.

Policing has priorities. Vulnerable people could come forward but if you do not fit these brackets [of police priorities] police would not address the issues as well as they should unless they are challenged.

I do not always put it in the newspaper when I make a challenge – that would destroy confidence. An awful lot of what I do is behind the scenes.

Once you have destroyed that confidence in the police you can’t get it back.

• What are you most proud of achieving in the last PCC term?

I think what I have done with victims. I always pledged to look after victims of crime, we opened a victims’ bureau and there is a new victims hub in north Dorset.

I was the first PCC to commit to updating victims, to keeping them as part of the journey through the criminal justice system.

That’s my legacy.

I have also managed to keep business as normal despite £30m in cuts to the police budget - £18m during my term as PCC. Keeping an efficient, effective police force despite huge cuts and looking after victims of crime.

• What are the challenges of policing in Dorset and what are your thoughts on police and crime priorities for the county?

We have three big issues for people living in Dorset: child sexual abuse, the exploitation of the vulnerable – and that includes the elderly.

This is something that has come completely over the horizon – it started with Savile and has not stopped.

It is hugely important we keep the vulnerable safe. I see that as one of the big priorities for the next term, and the other one is cyber crime.

There is a statistic that people in Dorset are more exposed to fraud than anywhere else in the country. Per capita there is more fraud in Dorset than anywhere else.

I suspect that’s because we have an elderly population. It comes back to exploitation of vulnerable people.

The numbers are hugely worrying for me as we have to help shift police resources to deal with this.

Also - road safety. We are seeing deaths and serious injury casualty figures go up both nationally and in Dorset for the first time in many years.

Some say that is because there are more cars on the road, some are saying it’s because of local authority spending cuts, the fact that they are not putting in what they used to on keeping people safe.

Others have suggested mobile phones might play a part – human error is a big cause. In my last election manifesto I had keeping people safe as a pledge but not road safety [which is now a manifesto pledge].

I think we need to do something very different, for instance, what about people who do not break the law but do drive badly?

The police have got to implement the law but I think we need to look at educating the greater public and try to improve driving skills.

For people in rural Dorset this is a huge issue. We know motorways are the safest roads but Dorset does not have motorways and we are more at risk in our A and B roads. We have got to get out there educating people.

There are various road safety charities, such as Safewise which I am a trustee of. I intend to make a commitment to offer courses. Dorset County Council already do courses for elderly drivers to have their skills checked.

The facilities are out there. It will cost money but we have got to try to bring these road safety statistics down.

It would be voluntary to sign up to a scheme but maybe we can help them financially to do that.

The other thing I want to do, and I am still working out the logistics of it is that we only prosecute someone who drives at 36mph in a 30 zone. So anyone driving from 31 to 35 is breaking the law but we do not prosecute them.

I would like to write to them saying you broke the law today but we are not prosecuting you, saying what the consequences are. It’s about trying things differently to what we are currently doing.

I also want to talk about business crime and drones – we know 17 per cent of crime is business related and I think we need to get better at dealing with that. We need a point of contact for all businesses to contact the police.

We need to continue to improve efficiency of police force and find alternative ways of policing.

We are already one of the top three forces in the country with use of drones. I want to get bigger and better.

What drones do really makes a difference, particularly to rural Dorset on the A35. If there’s a travesty on the roads over someone killed or seriously injured the police shut the road for six hours – they have to get information for an inquest and out of respect for the loved ones of the person affected.

That causes complete chaos across Dorset. Millions of pounds are lost to the Dorset economy.

It just gridlocks the county. A drone would be able to capture that scene in minutes rather than hours.

You could close the road for several hours – not six. That would have a huge ramification.

I am determined we will be the first ones to do that. The next level of drone is being trialled in Sussex for security at Gatwick Airport.

3D imagery could capture information at the scene of a road crash in minutes. That’s a good example of how you can get better at policing.

We get a lot of complaints [about roads being closed]. I was at a surgery in Bridport recently when a man told me road closures are damaging his trade.

Lyme Regis Town Council – they have told me the town is a hostage to the A35. A lot of people are concerned about it.

• A recent survey by the National Rural Crime Network found that 32 per cent of respondents are more fearful of becoming victims of crime than five years ago. What are your thoughts on rural crime?

The farming community, rural community, in keeping with national trend [of fear of crime] is higher than in the conurbations.

I am involved in a joint national rural network. We need to address that and one thing is to create a rural crime team on the same basis as North Wales police.

It investigates organised rural crime, wildlife crime, it’s had staggering success in north Wales with crime down by 40 per cent. I think we need that in Dorset.

That’s one of my main pledges.

• Latest statistics show anti-social behaviour and burglaries are falling but reports of sexual assault are on the increase. What can be done about this? Does more support need to be given to victims?

The national picture is that the home secretary stands there and says ‘cut crime’; that’s what PCCs have to do.

You can’t cut crime in every area. In some areas crime has gone down dramatically, what’s gone up is sexual abuse and we want those reports to go up because it means people are becoming more confident in telling us about it.

I get confused when the Home Secretary tells us that.

Human slavery, FGM, domestic abuse, sexual abuse – the reports are going up. It’s a dilemma but I encourage them to go up and the predictions are that they will go up even more.

Child abuse is expected to rise four times in as many years – that’s a huge amount of victims. I was at a conference with charities and we were all talking about how to support a huge amount of victims. It’s fantastic they [victims] are strong enough to come forward and we should be supporting them through that.

• Would you recruit a deputy PCC and would this be a paid position?

In the last election I said I wouldn’t have [a paid deputy] and I have not broken that pledge. He is completely voluntary.

He is the only unpaid deputy PCC in the country. The home secretary is saying she’s going to expand the role of PCC enormously after this election.

The youth offending service, all the courts, the fire service, could all come under the PCC – all of these things have been predicted for the last year.

It has changed my view and I think it’s more transparent if I declare it. The cost of this person is £40,000 per year – it’s not a lot of money we are talking about for all these roles.

From the end of summer we‘ll be dealing with all police complaints. The role is expanding enormously and as the role continues to grow I do not think we can do this on our own.

He will also be responsible with me for looking after victims.

People think it’s contentious but it delivers an awful lot for Dorset.

• There are 16 paid staff in the office currently. If elected, do you see this increasing, decreasing or staying the same?

I think it is difficult to answer that. I have arranged for the team to be reviewed after the election; I made that a manifesto pledge.

But I have got 16 staff, mostly on short term contracts paid for by government grants. We have got all these things coming, they are all going to need staff to work on these agendas.

Arguably we need to be looking at what we can do to some of this work by merging teams. The office is cheaper than that of the police authority.

It’s hard to say if it would grow or shrink or stay the same. I am keen to review it to deliver the best for the public purse.

• Should the role of PCC be connected to party politics?

We should not have Westminster telling people in Dorset how to police ourselves. I do not want party politics influencing police decisions.

I have started a journey in the last three years. We have had a huge change in the way policing is carried out – with cyber crime the agenda is starting to react to that.

I love Dorset immensely and I am proud to live in this county and proud to represent it.

Interviewer: Party political candidates have suggested they have greater access to political mechanisms, MPs, ministers.

I do not think that’s an issue. I represent PCCs nationally in 12 areas and have worked with Jeremy Hunt, Teresa May, Mike Penning, Michael Gove. I have access to ministers all the time.

I think some independent PCCs have had issues – some are very confrontational against the government but I have always shown I can work with them, and challenge them when I need to.

I have shown I can work with both main political parties. I do not think that’s a fair point.

Other PCCs may have issues but I will still get that meeting with a minister, it just won’t happen in as quick a time.

• What’s your view on the EU and what impact could the result of the referendum have on policing in Dorset?

As the PCC I have a view and that is that we would keep ourselves safer if we were outside the EU. You are only as strong as your weakest link and the borders in some countries are completely porous.

There are terrorists, people coming into the union group of countries and we have no idea who they are. One of the men who carried out the Paris attacks came across on a ferry from Dover.

He was wanted on the European arrest warrant, he was already on a wanted list and clearly his passport wasn’t checked.

[If Brexit goes ahead] we can negotiate arrest warrants outside the EU. Everyone’s got a view but at the end of the day, the view of Mrs Miggins from Poole is just as important as mine.

• What impact does immigration have on policing in Dorset?

Actually not much. We do have illegal immigrants coming across the borders – we know that is happening in Weymouth and Poole.

We have had people convicted in France. Illegal immigration does have an impact but not legal immigrants coming into Dorset.

They are enriching our community. There is a large Polish population – Polish is the second language now in Dorset and they are hardworking, law abiding people.

It does raise issues for us – we have to get translators – but I do not think it is a big issue for policing in the next few years.

• Since April 2013 the number of volunteers assisting Dorset Police has risen from 72 to 172 and 113 special constables have been recruited in the last year. Do you see the police force being increasingly reliant on volunteers?

Yes and I embrace it. I think it’s a really good idea. I have always said it brings a different mix to policing – you have got to bring the public into policing, as Peel said.

As soon as you forget, as soon as you keep people out, we are losing a part of policing I am really proud of.

Police volunteers have doubled in my term. I have doubled the amount of roles they can complete – you can volunteer in the fraud team, in CID, helping regular officers and staff do their jobs – they all do a really good job.

I am very proud of what we have done with the volunteers. We have recruited 180 special constables in my term.

It brings an amazing mix into policing. Yesterday I inducted our next batch of specials and it put a lump in my throat – if I am not re-elected that will be my last attestation.

I’m immensely proud of what they do in keeping people in Dorset safe.

• The police precept will be increasing by 1.97 per cent in the coming financial year which is expected to generate an extra £1,031,374. Do you think the precept will need to be raised again in the future?

The Chancellor, when he ‘saved’ the police budget, set police funding. If they raise the precept they are just staying still – but we also have other threats to consider – cyber crime, child sexual abuse.

I can’t say if we would raise it next year but I think it will because of these issues.

There is a huge increase in vulnerable people being exploited, and cyber crime, and to keep up with these emerging threats I think it is extremely likely – policing is in a position where we have to invest in it but it is too early to say if the precept will be increasing next year.

• There is already collaboration with Devon and Cornwall Police. Do you think a merger or police forces is likely in the future?

I think within a decade we will have a south west regional police force. The government are not pushing that agenda.

But there is no doubt about it – we do not need 41 police forces, 41 chief constables and there is a big debate ongoing as to whether dog units, traffic units, etc, should be part of a national response. We are definitely moving towards more collaboration and we will have a regional police force within 10 years.

[Through collaboration] we are saving nearly £15m of public money and that will continue in the next term. This is definitely on the agenda.

The public benefit from it – if you cut out the middle managers and merge them into one you do save an awful lot of money.

Interviewer: Does a police force merger mean fewer PCCs?

I have met with two police ministers to discuss this and I have asked them the question. The view is that PCCs will stay if the forces merge.

West Mercia and Warwick are closer to a merger than any other forces and the government has said they would have one chief constable but two PCCs and the PCC is there to represent the local community.

If the police force grows you will still have a local community.